Someone explain the gold trading to me

[Rox]

In games that allow gold to be purchased for real money, bots are everywhere and the economy quickly dies. How is GW2 any different? They are adding a sub step where you buy gems instead of gold, but gold can be traded for gems...and vice verse, so isn't that the same thing? Bots farm gold, and buy gems, which players purchase with real money? Bots get real money.

Also, GW2 said they don't think a player who spends money should have an unfair advantage over one that spends time. But, whats stopping me from just buying the best gear from other players instead of earning/searching for it? How is this not an unfair advantage?

I hope I missed something, but if not then in my opinion, real money for gems/gold should not exist. You can spin it how you want but a player who spends a crap ton of money in the game to get all the best stuff, then goes around PvPing certainly seems to have an advantage over anyone spending time.

[Ruzak]

"Goes around PvPing"
What does this have to do with spending gems to buy gear?
PvP is team based there is no open world PvP, and no one class no matter what gear he/she is wearing will be able to "tank" so to speak. Guild Wars 2 is not a gear game. Just like Guild Wars it's about cosmetics and the skill system, gear will play an important role but not the most important being you.

Bots will always exist no matter what, but again in Guild Wars they were constantly banning bots/spammers - very good quality control in that aspect. Buying gems for gold is a good system, not flawless mind you, but it lets people acquire shop items like Exp Boosts, and Costumes without having to spend their dosh on them.

All in all; I have confidence in ArenaNet to do what's best for the community not their pockets, as they always have. You seem to have a grasp on what they are proposing I just believe you are seeing it in the most negative light. Things have to be tested and giving a chance before they are proven moot.

[Vayne]

There is part of the equation in Guild Wars 2 that doesn't exist in other games. That's karma.

Most games only have gold and gems. But everything you need, pretty much, in GW 2 can be bought for Karma. Karma is a currency bound to your character. It can't be traded. So gold doesn't have quite as much value in Guild Wars 2 as it might in other games.

Also, consider most other games where you can trade gold for gems, you can do so for free. In Guild Wars 2, you would have to buy an account every single time you were banned...that's another $60.

Nothing is going to stop botting or gold farming completely, but I believe that the solutions being attempted by Anet will cut down gold selling significantly.

[Centaur]

Hi Rox, welcome to this forum.


Bots farm gold, and buy gems, which players purchase with real money? Bots get real money.

Actually, it works the other way around... someone buys gems from the ArenaNet store for real money (not from bots), then they can sell those gems in-game for in-game gold. So bots that have farmed in-game gold, will only get gems. Why would people buy gems from bots for real money and take the risk of getting banned, if they can buy them from ArenaNet themselves perfectly legal? So bots are taken out of the equation. The reason why gold sellers are so popular in many games, is because there is no legal way to buy gold for real money from the makers of that game.

As for "spending a crap ton of money in the game to get all the best stuff"... Guild Wars 2 actually isn't as gear oriented as many other subscription-based mmo's. There will be multiple ways to obtain gear, and it will be relatively easy to get max stat gear for your character. So you never have to spend tons of money for good gear. And for structured pvp it's even easier, as all people automatically receive max level and max stat gear there.

[Doomgrin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx7o7CRoDXc&feature=player_embedded


good watch

[Doomgrin]

In games that allow gold to be purchased for real money, bots are everywhere and the economy quickly dies. How is GW2 any different? They are adding a sub step where you buy gems instead of gold, but gold can be traded for gems...and vice verse, so isn't that the same thing? Bots farm gold, and buy gems, which players purchase with real money? Bots get real money.

Also, GW2 said they don't think a player who spends money should have an unfair advantage over one that spends time. But, whats stopping me from just buying the best gear from other players instead of earning/searching for it? How is this not an unfair advantage?

I hope I missed something, but if not then in my opinion, real money for gems/gold should not exist. You can spin it how you want but a player who spends a crap ton of money in the game to get all the best stuff, then goes around PvPing certainly seems to have an advantage over anyone spending time.

Except

1) why would you buy gems from illegal farmers when you can buy them from Arenanet and not risk getting banned?
2) if Arenanet controls the gem market, then they set the prices. Goldsellers would have to undercut Arenanet to be able to make any sales.

You make an assumption that gear is the primary driver in effectiveness in the game. PvP everyone is issued gear, you do not use your current stock. And also that the best gear is available to be purchased. It could be karma/valor/token based which are not tradeable.

Your post it too much "the sky is falling"

[Thanan]

I don't really think there is a "best gear" in GW2. They've already stated that high end dungeon gear will be on par with crafted/quest earned/purchased gear. The "best gear" youre referring to is cosmetically better but not statistically.

Also, dungeon gear isnt tradable, as far as I know.

As for the gold farmers, only buy from ANet and you 1) Support whats sure to be an amazing product and 2) Wont get banned on top of 3) Taking the power/money from gold farmers!

[Adrexl]

I was actually very happy to hear about the gem system.

There is no amount of policing, banning, and oversight the the game can stop gold farmers if they sense a profit. However, Arenanet's system simply removes any *reason* to gold farm. They have taken away the profit motive, and probably removed 90% of gold farmers in this one move.

What is it people who buy gold are terrified of? They don't like unsafe transactions that result in them losing their accounts, either because the gold farming site was a keylogger or because the game company found out they bought gold and banned them. I think it is very likely they will use the gem system Arenanet has provided with the game over any gold farmer attempting to sell gold.

In addition, GW2 is not WoW. Upon hitting 80, someone playing completely free could probably get max stat gear in a week, if that.

[sofreyr]

From what I have seen, the above comments (about gear, level, karma, etc.) have been what I have seen about this topic.

Something that has not come across to me while reading them was the content they plan to make available using the microtransactions. In my understanding of the what they are having for purchase with gems is cosmetic and time saving items.

That means there will be thing like boons to accounts for exp gain or temp health increases (these are to illistrate the idea, I do not know if these spacific items exists or not). I am not sure if one can purchase gold from an NPC merchant (ArenaNet), but one will be able to trade gems with players for items such as gold or equipment, thus making all gem items available for purchase by anyone.

In general ArenaNet is working to make the game so that success depends on the skill of the player, not the time and/or the money the player has put into the game. Granted both time and money could help, but one will not give an advantage over the other.

[Vayne]

From what I have seen, the above comments (about gear, level, karma, etc.) have been what I have seen about this topic.

Something that has not come across to me while reading them was the content they plan to make available using the microtransactions. In my understanding of the what they are having for purchase with gems is cosmetic and time saving items.

That means there will be thing like boons to accounts for exp gain or temp health increases (these are to illistrate the idea, I do not know if these spacific items exists or not). I am not sure if one can purchase gold from an NPC merchant (ArenaNet), but one will be able to trade gems with players for items such as gold or equipment, thus making all gem items available for purchase by anyone.

In general ArenaNet is working to make the game so that success depends on the skill of the player, not the time and/or the money the player has put into the game. Granted both time and money could help, but one will not give an advantage over the other.

Experiences boosts are in, but health boosts aren't. I'm sure there'd be a huge revolt if they tried to include health boosts. The experience point boosts are fairly modest...they won't make much difference, considering they only last an hour and only give a bonus to kills. More controversial to some people is the hour long karma boosts.

That said, nothing is final, the game is still in beta. It will be interesting to see what ends up in the shop.

[sofreyr]

Experiences boosts are in, but health boosts aren't.

I wasn't sure about the Health boosts (which was why I tried to disclaim them). I was trying to think of some of the items guilds could get for WvW. I remembered some sort of boon type system, but not what was in them. It has been a couple weeks and a beta weekend event sense I saw that list. I think you are right about a health boost. Riots would follow :-)

[Vayne]

I wasn't sure about the Health boosts (which was why I tried to disclaim them). I was trying to think of some of the items guilds could get for WvW. I remembered some sort of boon type system, but not what was in them. It has been a couple weeks and a beta weekend event sense I saw that list. I think you are right about a health boost. Riots would follow :-)

You're probably thinking about influence which, at least as of now, isn't in the store. You get influence by things you do while playing the game and you can, apparently, buy influence with in game gold. Influence buffs are different from other buffs you might buy in the store. For one thing, most of them take time to start once you buy them. For another, many of the things that help you still require you to have "supply" which you need to farm in WvW...so getting the buff isn't enough in and of itself.

There are also a ton of buffs you can get just from being a cook in crafting. Those are open to anyone in the game.

[sofreyr]

You're probably thinking about influence which, at least as of now, isn't in the store. You get influence by things you do while playing the game and you can, apparently, buy influence with in game gold. Influence buffs are different from other buffs you might buy in the store. For one thing, most of them take time to start once you buy them. For another, many of the things that help you still require you to have "supply" which you need to farm in WvW...so getting the buff isn't enough in and of itself.

There are also a ton of buffs you can get just from being a cook in crafting. Those are open to anyone in the game.

You are right. I was thinking influance. That led me to think the machanic is in the game. And you are right. The cooking would provide those types of stat influances.

With that said, I relize I may of strayed the thread if only slightly. Do we who know if players will be able to sell gems to NPC's for gold? And/or will gold be traded using mail or the auction house with other players? If NPC's do buy gems, and they pay a low price for them, then the players will set the amount of gold depending on how bad they want a gem priced item.

[Vayne]

You are right. I was thinking influance. That led me to think the machanic is in the game. And you are right. The cooking would provide those types of stat influances.

With that said, I relize I may of strayed the thread if only slightly. Do we who know if players will be able to sell gems to NPC's for gold? And/or will gold be traded using mail or the auction house with other players? If NPC's do buy gems, and they pay a low price for them, then the players will set the amount of gold depending on how bad they want a gem priced item.

I don't have a direct answer on this...but we do know that the price for gems will be set by player demand, which means it should be self regulating. In other words, gold isn't being created to buy gems from players, another player has to want to buy the gem first. Actually this leads me to believe there isn't going to be an NPC to buy/sell gems from...however there are ways they can handle it. I'm just not convinced they will.

We just don't have enough information at this time. In fact, the whole shop thing is still technically under the NDA. Most of what we know was leaked and the rest of what we know is from a single article in the Anet Blog.

[Archonis]

There is going to be a Gem Shop that is used to purchase items in game. There is nothing that gives an advantage over anyone. It is things like exp boost, stat boost and golems that allow you to access your bank. Also character slots and what not.

The good thing is that you can also buy these gems with in game currency and RL currency. So you don't have spend real money to get these things.

[Witchcraft]

I have actually played a game where cash shop points are traded between players from a vendor. This system allowed basically someone who had gold to buy CS items, & someone who had points to buy gold.. all legal.

Bots & gold sellers appeared in the game for about 1 month at the start, then realised they were wasting thier time because of the built in system.

My only worry is greedy players, that ask way too much gold for CS items.. but nothing is perfect I guess :)

[sofreyr]

I have actually played a game where cash shop points are traded between players from a vendor. This system allowed basically someone who had gold to buy CS items, & someone who had points to buy gold.. all legal.

Bots & gold sellers appeared in the game for about 1 month at the start, then realised they were wasting thier time because of the built in system.

My only worry is greedy players, that ask way too much gold for CS items.. but nothing is perfect I guess :)

If I remember right, Eve Online does a similar thing. Plex can be bought with RL money, and then traded ingame. Plex could then be used for play time, and other items. I never used Plex when I played, but I did know it was there.

As for greedy, some may, but if it gets to high and they realy want the gem priced item, they will spend the money. I am hopefull for this system, and it will depend on what they have for purchase. Only time will tell:-)

[Amadeus]

nice youtube video

[Sinshroud]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx7o7CRoDXc&feature=player_embedded


good watch

Great video thanks for the link.

On topic, I'm not going to flame the decision of selling certain in-game items/currencies for real life money until we actually see how it all works out. Overall the game design is great and confident, so I'm sure they know what they are getting into with this and will find a way to make it work.

[WarriorNow]

D3 is planning on doing an online AH too for real $ don't really like the idea of that, cause of certain advances in game that no one worked for imo. But its not my $ so I don't really care ha.

[Aurion]

In the beta we saw how trading gold for gems and vice versa works. People buy gems from ArenaNet and can then sell those gems to other players for gold only. People can buy gems for in game for gold but only the ones other players have set for sale and for the price they have defined. There is no option to buy gems with gold if no one is selling them, or to directly trade gems (or anything else for that matter) between players. There is only the trading post via which this gem-gold trading happens as well - anonymously. There is no way for bots or anyone else to sell the gems for real life money.

[Novocaine]

I think its possible to buy gems for real life money from other players later in the game.
Don't ask me how but I've seen it in another game.
For instance, there you could get 80 ''gems'' for 10 euros.
But if I'd buy it from another player I'd get 400 ''gems'' for 10 euros.
Someone explained to me that people just keep trading the ''gems'' in some way that they eventually get rich of ''gems''

And then there's always the gold-for-money sites, people keep spamming their site and prices on chat..
Like in Metin2, argh, do I hate them.. But actually thats pretty much the same as long as there are players selling gems on the market for gold.

Little real money -> Lots of gold -> Cheap gems
or
More real money -> More expensive gems
Then the step inbetween doesn't look so bad.
The only problem will be that the gems have to be on the trademarket.

After typing this I realize how the ''trade-cycle'' works/wil work in GW2..

Start End/Go on from Lots of Gold
Little real money -> Lots of gold -> Lots of (cheap) gems -> More gold -> More real money

You buy gold from another business or you farm it.
You buy lots of gems from the trademarket.
You sell the gems for just a bit more gold on the trademarket
* You can also sell the gems directly for real money, just a bit less then the GW2 price.
You sell the gold for real money, you can even use the same price as from the business you bought it, since you use it to make more.

*If you bought 1000 gold for 10 euros.
You buy gems from the market, each 100 gold, so you buy 10.
You sell these gems for 200 gold each, you end with 2000 gold.
Then you can sell the 2000 gold for 20 euros and start over again. (or if you're smart, keep 1000 gold to go on...)
(these prices aren't correct it's just an example)

Tip, keep your calculator close if you're in this business.

[Vayne]

Maybe, if you want to risk getting banned, I guess you could go to another place to buy gems. But if you get banned and lose everything you've worked for, you might not be happy. I'm sure buying gems for cash will be against the TOS. It's just not worth it.

Cheaper doesn't always mean better.

[Lagger]

I haven't read the whole discussion, so I may be off target. But I think buying gems from a mate is cool. Buying them from a third party company is not. Simple as that. :D

Don't weasel your way through life trying to find loopholes in everything. :)

[Vayne]

The more I think about it, the more I'm not sure it's possible. Gems aren't items in your inventory, they're a kind of currency that Anet tracks directly. There's no way to take them out of your account and give them to someone, you have to sell them through the game...I'm pretty sure this is how it works.

There really isn't anything "to" trade.

[Lagger]

You can always do the tricky business of flipping them in the trade post. If you time it right, you might sell them for 1 copper. It's risky because other people could snipe the auction, but it works well enough if you're both in some audio chat. :)

[Vayne]

You can always do the tricky business of flipping them in the trade post. If you time it right, you might sell them for 1 copper. It's risky because other people could snipe the auction, but it works well enough if you're both in some audio chat. :)

I don't know that you can sell gems on the trading post. That's not how it works...I think. You sell them from an option in the UI, directly and the price is set automatically by supply and demand, as far as I know.

For example, in the 2nd BWE I went to an option that said buy gems for gold, paid my coin and got my gems. THere was no listing, it was a single UI option.

[Novocaine]

What I posted up there if legal if you only use it to get yourself more gold or gems and you don't use real money to buy gold in the first place but farm it.

- - - Updated - - -

People in this line of business I know make friends with their customers so it stays ''underground''
Its kinda like th mafia actually, those ''friends'' take their friends to the business and become customers.

[Aurion]

I don't know that you can sell gems on the trading post. That's not how it works...I think. You sell them from an option in the UI, directly and the price is set automatically by supply and demand, as far as I know.

For example, in the 2nd BWE I went to an option that said buy gems for gold, paid my coin and got my gems. THere was no listing, it was a single UI option.

Yes, it's not exactly in the trading post, but the gold-gem currency exchange is within the same panel as gem store and trading post, and the way it works is similar to the way trading post works: from players to players, controlled by an in-game system, completely anonymously without allowing direct trading between specific people.

Now, back to the point of botting/gold selling: There is no option for two people to trade items, gold or gems directly to each other - there is no trade window. Also, the trading post and gold-gem currency exchange is shared by all of the Guild Wars 2 players (millions?) which means that in practice there is a good chance that someone has the chance to snatch the cheap gems right in front of your nose.

[Vayne]

I still expect to see a lot of gold sellers in this game at launch, even with the gem store setup the way it is. The game is just too popular for them to resist. My only hope is that they won't make enough profit from it to keep doing it long term.

[Aurion]

I still expect to see a lot of gold sellers in this game at launch, even with the gem store setup the way it is. The game is just too popular for them to resist. My only hope is that they won't make enough profit from it to keep doing it long term.

I completely agree with you on both of the points you made. There are so many other online games where gold selling is so much easier and - if the gold-gem ratio stays even close to what it was during the latest beta weekend - more profitable.

[Steven Smith]

Sorry dear i don't have any idea for investment for gold trading but i think minimum $1000
you needed for start of gold trading and i think gold trading is very risky trading and also
very expensive so be careful.