I was really excited about gw2 until i heard that everyone in PvP has the same gear... I dunno about you but in a mmo half the fun is getting new gear, but if everyone has the same stuff it makes all items completely worthless and well... kinda ruins the game for me. Please tell me this isnt so?
Hi Matto77, welcome to these forums.
Yes, it is true... at least with regard to gear stats. In competitive pvp, everyone is automatically raised to level 80 and has max stat equipment and all skills unlocked. This is done specifically so that not just the few that have worked their way up to level 80 and have been grinding max gear equipment for a long time, can be effective in pvp. In GW2, pvp isn't about having better equipment than your opponent, it's about having the better skills.
You will still be able to distinguish yourself by obtaining rare gear with unique looks, it just won't have any higher stats than the default gear that every other pvper has.
It's different in World vs World vs World pvp. You go in there with your pve character with his current skills and current equipment. And although that character (his level and equipment) is scaled up to level 80, you don't automatically get all skills and gear unlocked. So you can still unlock new gear and more skills by playing WvWvW... and by playing this, you will automatically gain xp and levels for your pve character, so you can effectively raise your pve character from level 1 to 80 by only playing WvWvW pvp.
Last edited by Centaur; 11-01-2011 at 01:24 AM.
if the fun part about PVP is acquiring gear, the game is doing something wrong.Originally Posted by Matto77
Anet's approach in GW2 removes it altogether, making it about pure skill. (this is definitely a good thing) Gear is a big reason why most MMOs struggle with decent balanced PVP.
Eh all this really does is ruin the fun of getting better gear, which is the fun of end game and.. well mmos in general and seeing as you can instantly unlock the end game straight away to me it just seems like making a movie where they tell you the ending at the beginning, pointless.
Furthermore, wheres the sense of achievement? Of being rewarded for beating the enemy? You may not believe me now but trust me, while it may be fun at first, when no matter how well you do, everyone else is the same as you, its going to lose its appeal real fast. I mean for f! sake even cheap ipod apps reward you with achievements and upgrades to keep you interested.
Although i am terribly bored with it, the best thing i found about WoW was that once you reached level 85 it was a big achievement, the insta 80 thing completely ruins this sense of achievement, and even then it only meant the fun was beginning. You had heaps of new gear to collect, dungeons to do new PvP areas, Pvp gear to collect. It was really fun competing against your peers and getting new gear was... yea i think you get the point.
Sorry if its seems im ranting a bit, but i was really excited about this game and well.... now im not.
That's fair enough man, if that's the best thing about MMOs for you then there's plenty about.
The thing that draws so many to GW2, is the prospect of an MMO which breaks away from all these tired concepts. they're trying to make a game, where the fun part is the game, not the gear.
You're asking for GW2 to be nothing more than another skinner's box MMO, which tbh has been done to death.
One important thing about GW2 is, that they don't want 'endgame' to be any different from what you're doing the rest of the time. Unlike games like WoW, where the rest of the game is a continuous grind to reach endgame, where the actual fun starts. In GW2, the actual fun starts at character creation, and you keep doing the same things you like to do all through the game. This also means you don't have to grind to 'get the good stuff' required for having fun.
But if that grind (and not the actual gameplay) is actually your idea of fun, then I'm afraid you won't find that in GW2.
The sense of achievement is still there, it's just not in the form of better equipment. It's present in the form of titles, and in the form of rare and unique equipment looks (skins), things like that. Those are the eyecandy that show to other people that you were better at something than they are.
GW1 has been using the 'max level and max equipment' principle for 7 years now, and its pvp is immensely popular, so I have no doubt that GW2's pvp will be as well. But yes, you can't please everyone. Those few who actually enjoy the grinding, the kill stealing, the loot stealing, or other unpopular traits about the current generation of mmo's, will have to look elsewhere, as GW2 won't have them.
Hmm, you honestly strike me as a PvE player and not a real PvPer.
The reward for beating your opponent is the achievement of "I'm better than you.." Isn't that why we duel, arena and PvP? It's the satisfying crunch when you bite into the frenzy of combat against someone who can react, change and dynamically surprise you rather than a scripted PvE type event. PvE in most modern mmos, while involving a certain baseline level of skill, is really a matter of learning the event and executing a plan that nullifies each phase of the event. Boss uses fire, move out of the fire. Boss uses attack, use skill X. Gear is the main factor in these encounters, and as you complete the encounters you gain access to better gear that allows you to progress.
PvP is completely different, while it's sometimes fun to grief and frustrate the opposing faction just 'For teh lulz', killing someone who is 20levels below you takes no skill. Your stats are better, he doesn't have a chance. Grinding out PvP gear in WoW when I actually played wasn't an achievement, it was a requirement to compete. Steamrolling a team that was in blues and hit for nothing wasn't satisfying at all.. In order to actually enjoy competitive PvP I had to find teams that were equally geared or better.. And then if they were just awful, it was a joke match and not satisfying..
Was I proud of my gear, well sure, in a way it was a badge of honor saying Hey, I obtained this rating and so I can wear this gear.. but the true concept behind it was "Hey look at me, I'm skilled." - which if I dueled someone outside orgrimmar who was in shit gear, well.. It was for kicks, because there's no way to take that match seriously.. I dunno man, I can understand the draw of getting better gear, but if that's your main reason for PvPing I'd have to say you're doing it wrong.. I mean really, you're going to eventually get to a point where you can't just 3shot your opponents, and you're going to have to actually use a little skill.. So if that's the point where you throw in the towel because you can't get better gear..
Edit: Realize it sounds kind of harsh, but I think it's best if I leave it as it is..
Edit2: Clarification.
- Armory
Last edited by Armory; 11-01-2011 at 07:34 AM.
There was a time in gaming when games were played for fun, rather than watching numbers increase. What did I get for playing through Goldeneye hours on end? Nothing. No gun unlocks, no perks, no advantages. Well, except for one thing. Fun.
If hoarding equipment is your thing than I think the old fashioned MMO is for you. Try SWTOR if WoW is getting boring. But I personally can't think of anything more boring and laborious than spending hundreds of hours looking for some godly loot. In Arenanet's words (used out of context), that sounds like PREPARING to have fun, not HAVING fun. GW2 just aims to skip to the good stuff.
hmm true true. I mean I play League of legends a lot, and when they are real bad and i just get super feed it does get pretty boring, thats why i stopped playing akali, to damn easy. I guess i just really hate the fact that any old noob will look the same and have the same gear as me, standing out from the sea of masses (like high level tiers in WoW) is always a good feeling. But i have to say, you guys have convinced me to still get the game, and if i dont like it at least i dont feel like i have to play and "use up my time" cause of the monthly fees.
heres hoping there is some sorda system in place so that everyone doesnt end up looking exactly the same (warhammer online anyone?) and they have an oceanic server
edit: o and thanks for the help, and armory i found that helpful not harsh
Agreed, but even SWTOR is getting away from the grinding aspect. They're adopting traditional MMO gameplay, but it's the story that's driving the experience in SWTOR, which being a BioWare game is no surprise. As for GW2, I like that it's a balance of many things which will bring players back. It will have a well told story, provide aesthetic incentives to go after top-tier gear. And isn't there also set bonuses as well? Which should provide incentive to go after the carrot on the treadmill.
I think the whole aspect of bumping people to 80 for PvP is really just an extension of how PvP was handled in GW. Where people could create PvP exclusive characters, and have just about everything unlocked for doing PvP-only content. These people were generally noticeable, and were the first to die in most matches. Proving that just because everyone is at the same level, doesn't mean that everyone will truly be equal.
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