What I Think Is A Logical Question

[GuildoGuido]

Hi folks. My apologies in advance if this question has already been addressed or is stupid, but it's something that's a bit... quirky in my detail-oriented mind and that I would like to have more info about.

My question specifically deals with the Thief and his/her ability to wield pistols.

Now, the conundrum I have is why does one class have the ability to have hand-wielded, portable, black-powder utilizing weaponry and the others do not? If all these races know each other/interact somehow, wouldn't that technology be shared? I mean, when you take the effectiveness of a Thief's pistol (and, apparently, it can shoot multiple shots in a row without reloading, per the Class Introduction videos that have been released by ANet) and put it against a Ranger's bow, there's... really no question as to who would win in a fight. Especially if it started at range..

So, I guess my REAL question is, considering the weaponry of the Thief and the fact that explosive, projectile weaponry [which seems technologically advanced and not "magic driven" like other professions' projectile skills] has existed since the GW1 game (in the form of Siege Turtle cannons, etc), why did it take so long for ANY race to get 'pistols'? And why doesn't every race have their version of hand-held, gunpowder-based, projectile-shooting weaponry?

Unless I am completely missing something or have my timetables messed up, this seems like a HUGE technological hole in the GW series. Let's face it: realistic warfare has changed DRAMATICALLY since the widespread utilization of hand-held, gunpowder-driven weaponry. Wouldn't the same apply for this fantasy world?

Thanks to anyone who can set my odd mind at ease in this regard.

And SUPER-props to anyone from the GW2 at ANet who can give me an answer.

[icewyrm]

i understand what your saying


pistols are a bit redundant when as an elementalist can drop a comet from the sky on you just leads to the whole statement of its just a game i do agree that all races,professions should be able to use any weapons which would be more ideal then only 1 or2 hmm iim just another fool giving his opinion though lol

to me it does seem that they need to give us more infromation then they have

[ComplexNuber]

I'm not sure if I understand exactly what you're getting at, it seems you're implying that the thief is the only profession with access to pistols, which is false - engineers have access to them too and in my personal opinion I think that Mesmers (not announced yet) have a large chance of being able to use them as well, but that's a discussion for another thread. Rifles also exist, and several other professions have access to those. Further, race has nothing to do with your access to weaponry. There are a few utility racial-skills but these are kept minimal to make sure you choose your race based on what you enjoy, rather than what would "should".

However, you say guns existed in GW1, they didn't. I'll grant you the siege turtles, and ignore the fact that they were on an entirely different continent that has been cut of from Tyria, the continent of GW2. I'll also ignore the fact that the Luxons didn't seem a very approachable society for people to learn how they managed to make a cannon. I can't recall any other examples of gun-like weaponry in GW1, the closest thing to it would have been the odd ballista in Nightfall. The reason you can't compare the siege cannon to a pistol can be shown by comparison, I'll compare it to computers. We can more or less agree a laptop is to a desktop computer what a pistol is to a cannon. We initially started with the big and bulky, heavy hitting, desktop PC. It wasn't until years later that we managed to compact that down with advanced technology into the tight confines of a laptop. We see this trend continue today, we're compacting computers into every tiny device we can, as technology allows, such as phones. For that reason, you can't really say a cannon is the technological equivalent of a pistol or rifle.

As for why it took a hefty 250 years, remember there was no industry in GW1. In GW2 the Charr are going through an industrial revolution, of sorts. Without industries technology doesn't advance very fast, if at all. I'm having a hard time decrypting exactly what you're trying to ask so I've gone a bit broad in my answer, but to cap it off, weaponry is dictated by class, not race. A US citizen lives in an age where they have engineered guns and have access to guns. Does that mean they all have weapons? Of course not, some people get by with other means. Bringing the analogy back to GuildWars, an elementalist simply has no inclination to use pistols. They are magicians, they do things their way. They could care less if their race is the mass creator of guns such as the Charr Iron legion, or a race that barely knows of them, like Sylvari.

[GuildoGuido]

Yeah, but the Elementalist is using 'magic', so I suppose there is a suspension of disbelief when it comes to the Metero Shower skill.

I'm just saying, "non-magic-wise", the fact that pistols weren't an option until now, when in GW1 there were cannons - which, honestly, is the same principle as a pistol in terms of the basic mechanics - is kinda... weird to me. And why only one profession can wield them when a whole host of races interact and fight alongside each other. There is already trade of materials and armor and even basic weaponry. Why not hand-held, gunpowder-ignited weapons? Just seems like a big loophole that ANet hasn't cleared up. Even in a fantasy game, there has to be some rule of logic, right? ^^

[GuildoGuido]

I'm not sure if I understand exactly what you're getting at, it seems you're implying that the thief is the only profession with access to pistols, which is false - engineers have access to them too and in my personal opinion I think that Mesmers (not announced yet) have a large chance of being able to use them as well, but that's a discussion for another thread. Rifles also exist, and several other professions have access to those. Further, race has nothing to do with your access to weaponry. There are a few utility racial-skills but these are kept minimal to make sure you choose your race based on what you enjoy, rather than what would "should".

- That is due to my ignorance. I had no idea that other races could use pistols or 'rifles'. But, seeing as how that wasn't really the basis of my primary question, it still leaves my question unresolved. -

However, you say guns existed in GW1, they didn't.

- I never said guns existed in GW1. I said cannons existed. Which use the same guiding principles as any gunpowder-utilized trajectory weapons. But I see your point. The Chinese had firework-shooters before any weapons of that type were condensed down to hand-helds. So I suppose my question doesn't really make sense from a technological standpoint. I guess I just assumed that, since so much impetus of the GW universe is put on personal combat that hand-held, gunpowder weaponry would've been invented in tandem with or very, VERY shortly after cannon weaponry. So, shouldn't we have seen an emergence of pistols or 'pistol-like weaponry' within GW1 at /some/ point?

....but to cap it off, weaponry is dictated by class, not race. A US citizen lives in an age where they have engineered guns and have access to guns. Does that mean they all have weapons? Of course not, some people get by with other means.

Again, I think the trade between the races OR classes should've lent itself to developing a modified 'cannon' or 'portably, multi-use' weaponry like a pistol or a rifle. The 'bombs' used in GW1 are great, I just think that, at some point, the Dwarves would've found a way to move technologically forward with the explosive weapons they were already using. The Luxons, too.

[ComplexNuber]

So, shouldn't we have seen an emergence of pistols or 'pistol-like weaponry' within GW1 at /some/ point?

It's not unreasonable from a lore perspective, but obviously not reasonable for the game itself, it's too drastic of a change for a game that is about to be overshadowed. They could of course, give enemies guns instead of players, which would be the best compromise if any were to be made. However it seems to me that guns should start cropping up during the industrial revolution (I'm not certain if Arenanet call it that) of the Charr. That can only happen after the Charr take back Ascalon, infact a *lot* has to happen before that, including the foefire which is a pretty huge event in the Guildwars timeline (for those who don't know what it is:http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foefire ).

Again, I think the trade between the races OR classes should've lent itself to developing a modified 'cannon' or 'portably, multi-use' weaponry like a pistol or a rifle. The 'bombs' used in GW1 are great, I just think that, at some point, the Dwarves would've found a way to move technologically forward with the explosive weapons they were already using. The Luxons, too.

True, but the dwarves died shortly after Eye of the North, and Luxons don't have any connection/communication/association with Kryta. Or any of Tyria for that matter.

[JohnnyV]

Something else you're not taking into account, if we really want to get serious with this discussion, is that cannons were around long before rifles and much longer than pistols. While the idea of the basic mechanics being the same, the idea of converting that to something handheld is a huge leap in terms of technological advancement. Just look at how long computers have been around, and how long it took before we got tablets and smartphones.

So there's a good chance that cannons were a huge technological advancement in the first game, and sometime in the 250 years between the games they were able to convert that to smaller weapons.

Of course, this is all just heresay on my part, but just trying to add a different angle to your observation.

[Drow]

My main character is gonna be Thief and im not gonna use guns -.- i find it very stupid.
Isnt bow or throwing daggers more fun then fill someones head with powder... I dont even like that whole idea about GW2 being idk how much years after GW1 so theres more technology besides pistols
Breaks down that feeling i was enjoying these years playing other RPGs.
Bow vs Pistol....stupid
and still I cant wait for game to come out and that just says how much I liked other things about it

(we are speaking about MissFortune vs Ashe here too)

[H azel]

You have a point with Ranger, there's no real reason they shouldn't have guns available to them. Warriors have Rifles, and the other professions have access to magic. I'd imagine anyone with magical abilities would feel no need to pick up a gun.

And does it say anywhere that they have only just gained access to guns? I honestly don't know, that's why i ask. If that's not the case, then there's no reason to presume that it took the entire time gap between gw1 and gw2 for guns to become available.

[ComplexNuber]

I'm pretty sure I heard of a dynamic event involving vehicles (tanks?). Players don't get to drive them but they're there.

As for the realism of bow vs gun, it doesn't make much sense to worry about it in my opinion. This is a game where you can have a meteor fall on your head while lava gushes out of the ground over your feet and a warrior with a sword the size of a human slashes at you with full strength, and you won't die. I'm just happy they left them in for the increased variety in weapon and skills it gives.