Got to agree with most of the points here about lack of challenge and reward in end game. I love the game don't get me wrong, but I am only playing it 2-3 times a week as that is all that holds my attention, unlike WoW where I would log in everyday and play for 5-6 hours and still log off with plenty left to do.
At the moment the dungeons are pointless other than a grind for tokens, the in dungeon loot is comical, I literally sell every piece or salvage it as its worthless to me.
The fact the only challenge of the dungeons is massive damage from the mobs just strikes me as extremely lazy dungeon design. Anyone with any spacial awareness and the ability to kite can just role through the dungeon. One shot damage against players is a stupid mechanic and dieing because there are 20 mobs in one room and its impossible not to pull them all so you have to do a rolling grave yard zerg because its the only way to clear them is just pure stupidity, where is the challenge or fun in that?
There are a lot of flaws with it at the moment that they need to resolve and quickly, fixing them in 1-2 years time is just to long. I just don't understand how some of the basic mistakes that where encountered by Blizzard and resolved by Blizzard have been allowed into this game. I appreciate they did not want to copy WoW, and that is great, but it is impossible not to have some similarities and for these similarities to be behind where Blizzard currently is with WoW just seems like foolishness to me. To have not learnt from past MMO's mistakes is just bad business.
The dungeon grind is working as intended. It's the same system they did for seven years in Guild Wars 2.
What Anet doesn't do is gate content, except for a minimum level. But you don't need special gear to do content. If you like the way a specific set looks, you can go for it. If you don't you don't have to go for it. The stats on those items aren't better than crafted or karma items.
In Guild Wars 1 we had elite armor and voltaic spears and celestial compasses and frog scepters, where were rare as hen's teeth. They're there because some people LIKE to farm. Some people did nothing in Guild Wars 1 but VS farm (voltaic spear farm). Over and over again all day every day. There were a ton of them. The voltaic spear had a really cool animation and it was the largest spear in the game, but it was no better stat wise than max level stuff that dropped off mobs. It was just a matter of people choosing to do that content.
This content was designed for those who like to farm and if Anet took it out those people wouldn't be farming. Because content isn't gated, it really is a choice, if you want to go for it nor not.
Guys like me won't farm a dungeon. I'll run one every now and then, help out guildies, do what I want when I want and evntually, without actually farming, I'll get the stuff I want.
The only real issue is for people who want it now. If you want it enough, you'll farm for it. But again, since content isn't gated, not having it doesn't affect your ability to do content at all.
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But I don't think it'll take a year or two to fix the most glaring errors. Maybe six months for most of it. I'm not sure people realize how much has been fixed even in two months. Six months down the road, not from now but from launch, most of the major stuff should be working better. Not perfectly but better. There'll be more features, better rewards, etc.
I mean just in the last patch they added karma rewards for dungeons and dailies and updated jumping puzzles to have level appropriate rewards. So the game is two months old and that's started to change.
To clarify my position I do believe there's plenty wrong with this game...just not any more that was wrong with any other MMO on release.
To me it's more a matter of patience and understanding the industry than anything that can't and won't be fixed. I just like the game enough that waiting for it to be fixed isn't really that much of a hassle.
I respect you Vayne but you are wrong, the dungeon system is not working. We started this game under the false pretenses that this game would be different to the others based in the no need for GRIND and if you want I can recheck some of your older posts where you were one of the strongest advocate about this issue and how GW2 broke the mold about it.
Now we find ourselves few months after release in the same spot all other MMOs out there are located, GRIND, GRIND, GRIND if you want tokens, Grind dungeons a gazillion times to get few tokens every time to be able just to gather enough for 1 single piece, that is absolutely contrary to the promises made by A-Net.
Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
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I know the company. I know the philosophy. I've said time and time again that that philosophy hasn't changed. The very same stuff they did in GW 1 they're doing here. I was fine with it there, so I'm fine with it here.
The people that aren't fine with it were listening to the lack of grind spiel and what was being referred to was leveling grinding. Having to kill monsters over and over to level.
The dungeon stuff really was well known to those following the game closely. I got 60 tokens today for finishing an explorable mode run of AC. I did another one a week or two ago. Two different paths, so I still haven't repeated the content. I'll do the third path next time (assuming it's not bugged. It was but I'm not sure it still is).
I'll have 180 tokens then. So if I do each path twice, I'll have enough for one of the ghastly weapons if I want it. That's not that bad to me, anyway. I had to run a whole lot more in Rift to maybe, possibly get the upgrades I wanted. But the thing is, in Rift the content was gated. You needed a certain amount of focus if you were a caster, or to hit if you were a thief or toughness if you were a tank, or you couldn't do content.
Since content isn't gated, and I see no rush to get this stuff, I'm quite content. Others, who must have this stuff, aren't.
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You will find more people are coming than leaving, at least according to the forums.
Personal observerations of mine, at least on my server, suggest that the population is slightly lower than launch, but considering everyone was forced into five zones at launch, with the size of the world being what it is, I expect people are more spread out. There are still queues for WvW, servers are still full at prime time.
And more people are coming than going, if you bother actually looking at these forums.
I know it's probably meant to be paid by guilds who collect money from their members, but the upgrades are still pretty expensive.
And then you've a fully upgraded keep and some enemy zerg takes it in no time, because of some golems (ok, at least they're expensive too) before you can even organize your defense properly.
Or even worse: some tool thinks it's funny to glitch into the keep and destroy the altar. Then you can't repair the altar (didn't work last weekend at least) and basically have a fully upgraded keep, you can't use to store the orb in. This means that, unless you want to upgrade a tactically less optimally placed keep, which you'll likely not be able to hold long because it's nearer to the enemies spawn, it's best to lose the keep and win it back, so that the altar gets reset. Now that's a vicious bug, if you ask me.
It's a bit discouraging to have that much of a money sink in WvW; Few people are buying upgrades; especially with the population inbalances that lead to full map domination at off-peak times (this time around it's my server having the strongest off peak presence, so we are winning by a ridiculously large margin), which makes it an absolute certainty your investments won't hold very long. In my opinion the whole sieging is a bit flawed anyway. It's far too easy to take anything and takes far too little time, in my opinion. But probably hour-long sieging business wouldn't hold the attention of the players.
Last edited by Bell; 10-25-2012 at 08:22 AM.
Vayne, did you mean to quote me in your last post? Why am I doing an experiment again?
Bell, I agree with you completely. Its a keep, it took months to siege IRL. I know this is a game, but taking a keep should take more than 2 minutes.
So if you're currently grinding dungeons for tokens for some gear skin, but don't really enjoy the grind, then my advice would be: don't.There are many ways to gain equipment in Guild Wars 2, including collectors and merchants. Karma can be used for different things besides exchanging for items, so it’s possible that a particular player might want to have a lot of karma to use for different things. In this case, we hope that this player doesn’t feel that what they’re doing is grinding, but instead that they’re playing the game and having a good time. However, it really depends on what a player’s priorities and goals are. If they want a lot of karma for something, and they want to play towards that goal, it’s their choice. We don’t want to force or encourage players to do something they don’t enjoy.