This isn't true though. My last couple WoW characters did not raid and they simply could not get into any real single group content. They also got completely destroyed in PvP against a raid geared player when they first hit 60, even more so than against PvP geared players since with bad gear DPS trumps all. Raid gear isn't just about raiding, it simply isn't.They were good yeah, but they weren't required which is what I'm saying. No one is forced into raiding. It's the community and popular belief that make it seem like it is. People labling things like "Oh you don't have X trinket" or "Oh you've got full gladiator gear and no Tier Y gear, you're bad
Vanilla was wonky and everything was crazy. It's stabilized since then.
Last edited by Fey; 11-07-2012 at 08:05 AM.
No I'm talking about a year ago. Raid gear still blows away the basic PvP gear in WoW. It doesn't blow away the rated arena gear but it still to this day blows away the basic easy to obtain PvP gear in PvP because the game is so heavily based on DPS and CC.Right, you're talking about vanilla. Which is what I was saying. It has not been like that since TBC. For 5 years now, PvP gear and Raiding gear have been separate and it's been just fine. PvPers get gear through PvP, raiders get gear through PvE.
This is an MMO issue and it's not going away. GW2 hasn't changed it, it's just how it is. It's not the raiding systems fault.
It does give people an edge for sure, however the higher tier PVP items for 2.2k players also give people an edge over other players, setups are the main issue though. I am playing at the moment and Hunters and Warrior are dominant, however the nerf bat is coming down.
I definately think that it would be easy enough to limit items being used in PVP/SPVP in GW2, I mean in SPVP you do not get to choose your gear, its given, on the same level, and you can tweak it.
Just add raids in, make achievements, titles, and some epic looking gear, add gold rewards for timed runs, add pets, the list is endless what you could introduce without adding gear.
WoW have created challenge dungeons in MoP were gear is scaled back to the same item level, dungeons are made harder, and they are timed. The runs give transmog gear and mounts, there awesome.
Exactly my point...just add raids in. It won't hurt anything...it can only help. More diversity never hurts anything.....Now we have fractals which is a gear grind...so anet has already went against what they said they were going to do....add raids
My take on raiding:
1 - It's not fun. As that is my personal value, please respect it. I have raided, and I'm sure that I'm done. I respect that others do enjoy raiding.
2 - It is not technically challenging to me. Anything you can do with 40 people you can do with 39. So one person's actual contribution is squat. This is going to become very obvious with removal of tank/healer roles. I do enjoy challenging small group content, a lot.
3 - It does change the community. There is social pressure to raid, even if the gear pressure is absent.
Due to a variety of factors, I have been hounded to death to go do raids before. I have in several MMOs actually deleted max level, geared characters (esp. the healers). It was the simplest way to explain: I'm done, and no please do not ask me again tomorrow. The characters were not being used "just for raids". Sometimes I had been attached to the character, and friends lost over-land, sandbox challenge and single-group content characters. I have learned that sometimes the pressure gets so annoying the only way to rid yourself of it is to delete the character(s) known to be capable of raid performance.
The community that forms in a non-raiding vs. a raiding game also has different features. This also shouldn't be news. The game goals and rules really do have social effects on the community. Darktide in AC1, EVE as a whole game. EQ1 raiders vs. UO gankers. Very different communities. GW1 developed an unusual, niche, PvE community. I came to GW2 for that. I convinced friends/family to join me. Some were out of MMOs entirely when GW2 released.
We'll just quietly go away again if this game becomes like the other MMOs with a gear grind raid treadmill endgame. We've all already collectively quit all the other MMOs already and are mostly done with them. Ageism has raised its head, some of us are older (but not all). The older ones have slightly more disposable income, buy box games and I just did a straw poll and yes, we buy gems. We'll take our pocketbooks with us, back to single-player games, many that have co-op ability now. I will be the only one of my friend circle to post. We respect some people like that sort of endgame, and if it is to be a game for them, fine, but we are out after leveling then. We are a fairly quiet segment too.
GW2 is competing in a unique niche, both in game community and features. Raids will win some, and lose some.