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Thread: Time periods of RPGs and why I think they're popular or not.

  1. #1

    Time periods of RPGs and why I think they're popular or not.

    Complete with a list of games within their respective classifications!

    Medieval fantasy: Final Fantasy I (with highly advanced ancient civilization and even a "futuristic" dungeon in outer space! Easily my favorite dungeon)

    Final Fantasy II-V and IX (IV had a hovercraft and spaceship to the Moon and a giant robot, so should I still count it under this? IX had Terra and genetically modified clones, but that was another dimension)

    The Dragon Warrior series.

    Breath of Fire I (an awesome game!)

    World of Warcraft (is really an action game with some RPG elements like leveling up, HP, and MP thrown in there)

    And of course Guild Wars

    So many to count

    Modern fantasy:

    The Mother Series

    Final Fantasy VII (VIII could count kind of, but is more of a "30 minutes into the future" kind of a "present" though Ishtar is firmly in future territory)

    The Arc the Lad series

    The Secret World

    Science fantasy/Science fiction:

    The Phantasy Star series (1 was science fantasy with futuristic technology in a medieval society with magic and royalty. 2 was more straight up sci-fi with some fantasy elements, 3 was mostly a straight up medieval game ironically on a world ship with cyborgs from a long ago bygone era, but still counts as sci-fi for obvious reasons, and 4 is in a time like the present, but with Phantasy Star II era technology in ancient ruins and said surviving technology made space travel possible)

    Star Ocean series (a really fun and involved series, I especially liked, "The Second Story")

    SWTOR or any Star Wars game

    Part 2

    It seems that developers shy away from either modern or sci-fi games much of the time, but why? I have a couple of theories, but they look beyond the RPG culture.

    Fashion and architecture:

    Modern fashion is relatively simple, and the architecture is plain and boring. Who wants to stare at either rows of uniform cookie cutter houses, and only houses in communities centered around cars, gray boxes, and tall glass? While the below video mentions bigger problems it nevertheless could explain away the shying away from making modern setting MMOs:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ZeXnmDZMQ

    Also, you have a host of villains: corrupt executive, evil dictator, and sophisticated international cartel leader. The lawful evil guys will mostly be running around in suits: either in light gray with a burgundy tie or a navy suit, and lower down the totem poll a corrupt police chief who wears suspenders. Maybe a dark-pin stripped suit if they want to give the specific villain a cigar. The chaotic evil guys, on the other hand, will inevitably wear jeans, a black turtleneck, and maybe a barrette.

    This is far less diverse than, say, robes, capes, shoulders, of countless different color combinations can have, as the differences here are far less subtle. Modern architecture also has a lot of gray, drab, colors and a boring uniformity.

    Despite these obstacles Arc the Lad was still a great game to look at =) The Mother series was too, but it was bright and cartoony that helped it aesthetically.

    Now, moving on to the future, we come to countless different approaches: You have the cold, sterile, and functional future, where nothing is beautiful, sometimes even with pollution everywhere (somehow, these societies, despite finding a way to break the light barrier, can't even be bothered with clean alternative energy sources lol!), and some writers even think we like looking and banal dessert all the time! Then, you have the future that is aesthetically pleasing and idyllic, and this is harder to pull off. Phantasy Star II and the Star Ocean series did this perfectly, and created societies that communicated, "People live here". There was sufficient green, and buildings were clean, but not sterile dead things meant for robots.

    What do medieval games offer? There is a lot from which to draw. Gothic architecture and western medieval architecture is especially prevalent in the Dragon Warrior series.

    Much of the world in such times is unexplored, most of the world's frontier isn't tamed, and that which is tamed, is tamed by societies your home society hasn't come into contact yet. In the present and future, however, the world is fully explored and national boundaries are firmly established, and with the presence of airports and cars, travel is far too convenient to plausibly make a long and epic journey. Towns also had a lot of space between them, so there is plausible wilderness between them that doesn't work as well as modern setting RPGs (though FFVII got away with it nicely but wasn't a "real world" modern setting)

    How are you going to slash (or shoot) your way through mythical creatures if you are just driving by rows and rows of houses? The nearest town is always literally touching whatever town we're in at the time, unless you're really out of the way like climbing Mt.Everest or something.
    Last edited by Agemnon; 11-05-2012 at 07:44 AM.

  2. #2
    Vayne's Avatar
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    Interesting write up, but I have some other ideas about why certain games are more popular or more developed than others.

    For one thing, people who are programming games now grew up with dungeons and dragons, more than any other RPG. It was the staple. Then you have games that want to cash in on the popularity of Lord of the Rings, among others. The tendency to make games or not make games goes much further than just fashion.

    For years, science fiction books have been mostly plot driven, rather than character driven. Fantasy books, on the other hand have been character driven. Character driven books sell more than plot driven books, so more fantasy fans emerge than sci-fi fans. The exception are the video watchers who never read books, but if you look at the developers, you'll find a lot of readers among them. I mean Jeff Grub wrote D&D novels after all.

    I think you'll find that fantasy in general is more popular than scifi and that's the reason more fantasy MMOs are made. It's all about escape, more than anything else. And science fiction may well hit too close to home.

  3. #3
    Agreed mostly to an extent, but there's a clear line between science fiction (Star Trek) and science fantasy (Star Wars) too. For one thing, sci-fi thinks that it's actually possible someday, and many sci-fi writers who pride themselves on their scientific realism may write a story of a dying planet that needs to build a world ship to leave their planet, but end up failing due to the extraordinary amount of precision, technology, and resources involved, I just don't see becoming popular as it lacks that romanticism most people crave. Star Wars may have started on some dry desert planet, but the setting and environment were made to work, and we have the classic hero's journey and aliens with character.

    I'll agree though that modern settings hit too close to home too! I mean, what's wrong with having a modernesque society on an Azeroth where orcs, trolls, humans, and others live in a diverse society, but not so monoculture that everything is as boring as the real world. They could still have cities spread far enough a part to make questing in the wilderness just as viable as it was in the old Azeroth, but it'd take a lot of lore work to make that credible and people would ask things like why didn't they just build an airport nearby to avoid the whole mess and reason for the quest chain or whatever =(

    I give importance to architecture and environment as aesthetics matter at a subconscious level. The feelings you get from an environment can usually tell you what that society is about, and communicates to the player, "We have a civilization" or, " You're in the presence of a bunch of philistines, deal with it." or even, " We value ruthless efficiency and practicality above all else, and anything not gray and concrete is a waste. Yeah, we said it, sue us". The latter though unfortunately is way too common in many sci-fi games, but does indeed have its place, especially for a race like the dredge in GW2 to communicate a lack of artistic sense on the natives' parts. Medieval fantasy just seems to bring more variety, ironic given that it was a time of less choice (but bigger frontiers to make up for it).

    Yeah character driven is key, we need characters that we like and even don't like so when we see them defeated we're happy about it!

    The more modern and futuristic societies tend to have faster, more efficient ways of killing things, so why need a superhuman knight with a sword to finish off a monster when sir normal with a rifle can finish it off? Okay, a rifle has the same effectiveness no matter how strong you are whereas the knight's sword grows more effective as he gets stronger, so maybe he'd be better against higher defense and HP monsters, but then you'd have a problem with the rifle guy being underpowered. But industrial efficiency simply just isn't epic. Awesome for a game like EvE yes, but medieval combat is just more idealized than modern combat.

  4. #4
    Vayne's Avatar
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    Star Wars is considered science fantasy by most people in the industry, rather and science fiction, because it has no real basis in science. And of course, it was popular for Science Fiction because of the heavy emphasis on characters. The coming of age story of Luke Skywalker particularly hit a chord. In fact, it wasn't very different from most fantasy stories.

    The princess is in trouble and so the brave knights (jedi though they be) go up against the dark lord. The young knight is befriend by a powerful wizard, and they all go and storm the castle.

    They changed the setting, but it's essentially a fantasy story.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Vayne View Post
    Star Wars is considered science fantasy by most people in the industry, rather and science fiction, because it has no real basis in science. And of course, it was popular for Science Fiction because of the heavy emphasis on characters. The coming of age story of Luke Skywalker particularly hit a chord. In fact, it wasn't very different from most fantasy stories.

    The princess is in trouble and so the brave knights (jedi though they be) go up against the dark lord. The young knight is befriend by a powerful wizard, and they all go and storm the castle.

    They changed the setting, but it's essentially a fantasy story.
    Medieval Fantasy, IN SPACE!

    SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE

    Also I am disappoint that SRPG's and JRPG's aren't mentioned in your list, OP.
    Last edited by Fey; 11-05-2012 at 10:05 PM.

  6. #6

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    Hate to break the news to the OP... but that list is not of RPGs... but rather computer RPGs and MMPORPGs!

    The term "RPG" relates to old school (paper and pencil) RPG's... such as D&D, AD&D, Twilight 2000, so on and so forth.

    Please don't confuse the terms/acronyms. The D&D player within me dies each time someone does!
    In Articulo Mortis, Sunt Omnes Unum

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Fey View Post
    Medieval Fantasy, IN SPACE!

    SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE

    Also I am disappoint that SRPG's and JRPG's aren't mentioned in your list, OP.
    Phantasy Stars I and (especially) III were medieval fantasy in space with a vengeance lol! Star Ocean was too... kind of, but involved an invader from Earth somehow getting lost on a primitive planet and the plot thickening from there. Phantasy Star Online II is actually coming out early 2013, and is all sci-fi with some magic thrown in.

    And... Arc the Lad is a SRPG and JRPG

  8. #8
    In summery we could say that medieval times had large parts of the world unexplored and mysterious and the future (which will never happen since FTL travel is impossible unfortunately... or perhaps fortunately since we can't be invaded by giant lizard creatures ) has an entire uncharted galaxy for exploring... an unknown civilization that's either as advanced or more advanced than yours could come out and try invading your planet.

    However, the modern era is one with a completely explored world that's shrunk down due to fast and convenient travel yet our technological limitations keep us locked in our respective worlds. Like I said some games like Arc the Lad, TSW and Earthbound make it work it's just hard to get right.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Agemnon View Post
    Phantasy Star Online II is actually coming out early 2013, and is all sci-fi with some magic thrown in.
    It's already out, I'm max level n' stuff.

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