ArenaNet: Linsey Murdock unveils High End Ascended Gear (2012-11-13)

[Jim Hunter]

So I guess my question is if this stuff is craftable, if you're able to get it with karma, if you're able to get it with badges of honor, is this still a problem for people?

Yes.

The only way I will accept the new gear is if they make a clear statement that this is the end of it. No more adding higher gear a few months from now. I don't care how slowly they introduce it, I hate the gear creep.

Horizontal progression was the biggest appeal of this game for me. They could have added the trinity, raiding, open world PvP or pretty much anything else and while I wouldn't have been happy about it, it wouldn't have been as game breaking for me as a gear creep.

[bokiz333]

lol...around and around and around we go.

[Centaur]

If they make the stuff as easy to get as exotic armor, over time, I just see it as something else to work for...particularly if you're not forced to do one specific type of content to get it.

Just in case you didn't see my translation of Ramon Domke's reply on the subject, I'll paste it below:

The gap is indeed the time, or the method of acquisition. For many players, Exotic gear is a short-term to mid-term goal. And the Legendary gear is intended as long-term goal (but we have found out that player absolutely want to get their "Legendary" as fast as possible - that's why we are making changes in this area). So after this change we will have the Exotic gear as short-term (direct) goal, the Ascended gear as mid-term goal (on the side, as it's not available as a complete set right from the start) and the Legendary gear as long term career goal for your hero.

If they would make the stuff as easy to get as exotics, then the whole point of introducing the ascended gear as a mid-term goal, would be gone. So you can be sure that ascended gear will require a significantly higher amount of time (grinding) or money to obtain, than exotic gear.

As for the 'over time'... right now, these items are only available in this particular dungeon. Each item has a 10-15% increase in stats compared to the equivalent exotic item. It definitely won't add up to 10% overall on a full set of gear, but in a match between two (approximately) equally strong opponents in WvW, this difference could well mean the difference between winning and losing that fight. So I can absolutely understand why it bothers bokiz, especially since this difference wasn't supposed to be there in the first place.

[frunk]

The narrow/long path of obtaining it is part of the problem. The wider power spread at the same character level is another. It makes it difficult to keep content challenging for everyone but not boring or overpowering for some. It means going back and doing lower level content is that much less interesting. In that respect adding new character levels would be less damaging since the scaling would drop you down more.

edit: cleaned up syntax.

[Centaur]

In that respect adding new character levels would be less damaging since the scaling would drop you down more.

I'm curious what ArenaNet have in mind when they do increase the level cap in a future expansion (as they have said that they 'definitely' will). I don't expect them to keep the armor stat cap at the same level if they do, as then there would be absolutely no progression while leveling up (which is apparently what a lot of people want, and what ArenaNet wants to give them). Will all ascended gear become obsolete again at that time (regardless of how many hours people spent grinding to get it) and will all legendary gear be scaled up again?

[Fey]

This is a mindset more than anything else. I don't have the mindset. And I still think the playerbase at large is too conditioned to require reward, instead of just having fun. And yes, I blame WoW clones generally for that.

It's not a condition thing, it's just how the genre works. MMO's are never as polished and in depth as single player games. Expecting the majority of the community to explore and be fine with the experience of just playing the game will never work because MMO's just don't operate that way.

And even in single player games, you get rewards for exploring in addition to that exciting experience of actually exploring.

Skyrim: you get money, treasure boxes, rare items in random caves.
Zelda: You get heart containers ruppies and other misc things.
Demon's Souls/Dark Souls: Souls, items, armor, weapons
Megaman X: Health upgrades and subtanks
Metroid: Powerups.
Mass Effect: Credits, resources, armor, weapons.
Torchlight: Gold, exp, items
Super Mario: Stars, alternate paths, 1up's
Sonic: Chaos Emeralds, 1ups's, misc upgrades (depending on which game)
Prince of Persia: Health upgrades, sand upgrades
GTA: Cars, money, weapons, houses
Prototype: Misc upgrades and ability levels
etc etc etc

The list goes on and on. The industry does not condition players to play a certain way. In fact the biggest challenge that any developer faces for any game is that they have no idea how players are actually going to play their games. Even straight forward genre's like RTS and Fighting Games, players find out things about games that developers had no idea where there.

The players are the ones that show the Dev's what works. Dev's have to take a lot of risks when innovating and the risk of failure is always really high. This is actually due to a large number of casual gamers flooding the market that don't really understand games as the art form they are or gaming itself as a culture. It's literally almost completely consumer base driven, not the other way around.

If the consumer base were more open, we'd see a lot more risks being taken and new things being tried. Instead of this very slow process of evolution that's been happening.

[frunk]

Quite the contrary, as the cost of making a computer/video game goes up there's a pretty direct correlation to the cautiousness and timidity of the genre. It isn't related to the demands of the consumer, but to the number of consumers the game needs to appeal to in order to make a profit. Cheaper, less flashy/graphics intensive games can afford to take risks because the niche that they need to find in order to profit is smaller. Big productions will only rarely, if ever, take those risks because there's too much money on the line.

[bokiz333]

I disagree with everyone on everything.

[Fey]

i disagree with everyone on everything.

innanet!!!!

[frunk]

I disagree with everyone on everything.

I'm afraid I can't agree with that.