I'm not because I'm not doing it in the first place, and that's another part of the problem. Even if you do have a guild you'll be encouraged to stay in step with them. If you wait when they proceed through the progression you'll holding them back or relying on others in the guild to start when you do.Originally Posted by Fey
Last edited by frunk; 11-24-2012 at 03:36 PM.
So then it doesn't affect you as a player as you're not taking part in this section of the game. So your opinions of this system (which you're not even utilizing) are pretty much invalid. Again, no offense intended.
No idea what you're trying to achieve with that. Majority? Minority? You stated that I wasn't "thinking the way a lot of people are", all I pointed out was that there actually are "a lot" of people thinking along the same lines. Nowhere did I claim to know if this were a majority.
But now that you're on the topic anyway... first, assuming that people aren't interested in max stat gear because they are casual, is just plain wrong. In fact, most casual players will look for the fastest and easiest way to max stat gear, with the least amount of grinding, so this should be even more relevant to them.
Second, I believe the opinions of the posters on the forum are a pretty good reflection of the opinions by other players. If 30% of the people active on the forums disagree with these changes (just a random example, don't attach any meaning to that number), then it's actually a fair bet that this will be approximately the same percentage among the people who don't post on the forum.
The main "gear" progression... yes. That's the only kind of gear progression I find acceptable (I don't enjoy MMO's that have gear stat progression at endgame, and I don't play them), and that's the kind ArenaNet promised us. Yeah, I know a lot of people are used to gear stat progression at endgame, but ArenaNet haven't even tried offering anything else at endgame, so how can they even pretend to know if something else wouldn't work just as well? Just because people aren't used to anything else and lots of other MMO's do it this way, doesn't mean that those people wouldn't be open to a good alternative.
And yeah, this game should have had a lot more skins at launch. After being in production for so many years, the variety in gear skins available at launch is extremely disappointing.
No matter if it's easy or hard to get, if people have mindset that max stat gear is the only thing worth grinding for and they leave the game when they obtain it, then those people will leave anyway as soon as they have their ascended gear. The only way to prevent that, would be to add more levels of gear. Once that is the direction you choose to take, you can't just stop and say "until here and no further" without losing those players that you were doing it for anyway. So this is a short term workaround at best (while at the same time pissing off all those players who don't want vertical progression and who believed in the manifesto).
Well, I'm not an active GW2 player anymore at this time, but I'll answer anyway. It's not a matter of absolutely "needing" it ("needing" something is a questionable concept anyway, in a computergame... you don't need to get max stat gear, you don't need to get to max level, you don't need zone completion, you don't even need to play the game. It's a game... it's supposed to be something you do for fun). It's a matter of player equality and having fun. For me, part of the enjoyment of the game is the concept that all players are equal. It should be about player skill, not about gear or whatever. Giving one player max stat gear and another not - or letting one player obtain max stat gear by doing the content he enjoys, while another (who hates grinding) is forced to do something he hates to get max stat gear - would give that one player an unfair advantage over the other and break that equality. It's the exact same reason why I hate pay to win items in the cash shop... it creates inequality between players (and it benefits one player while putting another at a disadvantage). A game that supports such concepts just isn't "fun" for me, I don't enjoy playing it. And that's why it matters to me right now.
Last edited by Centaur; 11-24-2012 at 05:41 PM.
You only asked to what extent max gear mattered to me, not if I was actually chasing after it. I made a choice about it based on the conditions of obtaining it, as I'm sure many others have as well.
Depends on the guild. I can guarantee you that won't happen in my guild, for example. Just as most of the people in my guild won't be grinding for gear, because it's not our game. But our game does exist in this game regardless, which is where something like Rift and Guild Wars 2 part company.
In Rift, when I played it at least, the immersion aspect was pretty much completely ignored. Guild Wars 2 built the game around it, so that I have an entire world to explore...and a large one from a new MMO standard. I still find new stuff every time I go into a zone. I find new stuff in cities too.
This grind for gear doesn't affect me at all. It doesn't particularly affect my guild, because I built a guild of people who are interested in what I'm interested in. Will there be exceptions in the guild? Sure. But they won't dominate the guild and a guild of helpful, friendly social players that's inclusive instead of exclusive wouldn't exclude you in any case.
Do you know how many times I've run story mode dungeons on the same characters for people who haven't done them yet?
That's great, but a dungeon built for grinders with rewards for grinders is generally for a different type of guild.
To be honest this problem is strictly due to the way that ANet implemented FotM. If they allowed max level to be tied to the max level of any player it would be solved. On completion if the level chosen was >= your level progression you'd gain one level. You'd still have to put the same minimum number of runs to get to a given level but those with higher level would be more interested in playing with you. If they wanted they could tie rewards for the player to their FotM level to avoid piggybacking.
And you answered. It doesn't. Because you're not trying to get it. You're speculating for other people that may or may not find groups when you're not even going to be looking for them.
This is more of what I was looking for. I understand why you're upset about the change, I think that goes without saying 52 pages in. I suppose I don't really understand why it's worth quitting over. I don't really see where the "unfair advantage" argument comes into play. I understand why people think it's an issue, but I don't see the correlation.
Worse case scenario, you get killed 1v1 by someone with the better gear. But at this point in time, there's really no way to tell if they had better gear or not to begin with. Since the only form of PvP where you can use PvE gear has no way of checking stats, I don't see why it matters. I'm sure I'm slaughtered countless people in uncommons and rares. It matters less when WvW is more about working with your server and attacking as a unit.
In the case of PvE, if someone has better gear than me and they join my dungeon group (in any MMO) it's fabulous. Maybe it's just me, but I have no problems watching someone with amazing gear tear through mobs and make a dungeon run easier. I personally haven't been denied joining any groups either because of my class or my gear (even before I had my current gear) so maybe I've been fortunate. But I don't see how this is a problem, yet.
Edit: I do however, understand the frustration with feeling "forced" to run a specific form of content to get a specific gear type. But honestly, the whole game is set up this way. If I want a specific gear look I have to do something specific to get it. If you want a legendary, you have to do specific things to get it. Adding numbers to the sets, while they could have easily left that out, they chose not to. But it really doesn't change anything. You still have to do specific things to get specific things. Except now there's a higher number attached.
I hate Citadel of Flame. But I ran the crap out of that place because the flame coat for medium armor (and the rest of the set) makes me look more like Dante. And that was my choice to do something I don't enjoy for a reward that I really wanted.
Last edited by Fey; 11-24-2012 at 10:24 PM.
Except that if you're in the right guild you'll always have people who'll run with you and the rewards are roughly comparable so they're not even suffering for doing so.
Fey, see this earlier post where I explained my view on the 'unfair advantage'. So far, everything that affects gameplay (character stats, skills, gear stats) has been fairly easy to obtainab. The amount of grind needed to obtain any of those, was none to minimal (as ArenaNet said it would be).
The only things you could choose to grind for (skins, legendary gear) had no influence on gameplay, only on how you looked. So they were completely optional (and I never did any of that grinding, as I don't enjoy it). Requiring people to grind or pay for anything that affects gameplay is a completely different beast, that's where I draw the line, and that's where it stops being fun for me. To me, requiring people to grind for higher stats on gear at endgame, is in the same category as selling better skills in the cash shop. You can argue that they are both optional, but I do not agree with it, I will not support it, and the presence of such functionality makes the game less fun for me.
As for the "worth quitting over"... see the other thread, in which I explained all my reasons why I stopped playing. This definitely wasn't the only one, although it does bother me a lot.
Yes. I remember that post. It's just... the thing is, the people I've seen that are complaining about this change are people that don't care about gear. Suddenly now that a gear pieces with a higher stat have been introduced everyone's mad. However people that already have gear, seem to not care.
And I just find it interesting, because even though these people have been running around with less than the best gear, now suddenly it's them who are the most angry and the ones who feel "forced" to suddenly have to "grind" to get the best gear. When a lot of us have already done the grind and don't seem to care that there's more.
You see what I'm saying? I mean I know there are obviously some people who have the best gear who are also mad but, the majority of the chatter (at least on this forum and what I've seen on the official) suggests otherwise.
That's what I don't understand. People who don't care about gear, who suddenly care about gear. Most of you were enjoying the game anyway. I don't really see why that's changed. To be perfectly honest.
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