A post full of awesomeness, you Sir got it right on the nail's head.Originally Posted by Jim Hunter
A post full of awesomeness, you Sir got it right on the nail's head.
Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
The gear I wanted only came from CoF. I was required to run it to get it. 2 months before they even introduced the Fractals. So... Deal with it?
Once again, cosmetic versus statistically better.
Irrelevant.
A gear grind is a gear grind, no matter what the stats are. Tunnel visioning into one specific aspect is closed minded.
On top of that, it seems like they're addressing the issue to me. So you all can stop complaining about it now.
Q: Fractals have become the end-all for making your character stronger. Players are vanishing from maps everywhere to grind grind grind for the now-strongest items they can get ahold of. It's disruptive to the community, the fun, and the manifesto. What is being done about this?
A: This ties back to what i was saying earlier in which Ascended Gear and really any progression related reward mechanism that impacts the world globally should be introduced (Where possible) across the game and inside the different type of player's activities specifically. Allowing players to continue doing the things they love without focusing player migration to a specific part of the world. The introduction of the Ascended reward in one part of the game was a mistake and one that i don't want to make again.
Soon Ascended Gear will adhere to these rules.
Last edited by Fey; 11-27-2012 at 04:40 PM.
I have more characters than you. This is a non-issue of the stat difference is meaningless, or near so. If it's not, then that's another story. And since no one really knows, it's a non-issue for now, to me. However, you''ll do whatever is right for you.
But I don't see this as disastrous for the game. Only those who must have BIS stats will find this disastrous.
But people had voluntary grinding in Guild Wars 1. It's not dangerous. In fact, I doubt anyone will die or be injured over this. Sure everything is a choice. If this game goes out of business, no one is really going be affected except of course Anet and NCSoft. Everything is a choice when it comes to a game.
So let me ask you this question. If some people really do need some kind of stat increase to go for that gear, and those people leave the game, keeping in mind that no one knows how big that percentage is, and the game can't move forward because there aren't enough of us who don't need it, is that less or more dangerous for someone who likes the game.
It's a lot of ifs and I simply don't know. I like this game. I'm having fun with this game. If this game doesn't do well, in my opinion, we'll really have more years of games like WoW and I won't be playing any MMOs period. MMOs work for me for serveral reasons, but only if I find them fun. This is the first one I've found fun.
So now I have to make this sort of guess, do I know more than Anet about how many are staying and how many are leaving? Do I know more than Centaur? Do I really know anything?
See my concern is that a game that I like stay viable and if they stop coming out with content because not enough people are interested....well we all know what happens to MMOs when that happens.
Are you 100% certain there are enough people who don't care about stats to support the game as it stands now. As it's been developed. Because if you aren't, then the bigger danger for me is not supporting the change. I'll continue to play any game as long as I'm having fun.
This is dangerous in one way if you're right and dangerous in a different way if I'm right. And I still think Anet has more of a chance of being right than either you or me. We're players, but we don't get to see their data, which is what I keep saying.
So again, for the record, I'd have preferred cosmetic gear grind if it were viable, but if it's not, then this is still better than watching a game I'm having fun with slowly fade away.
Well you come across as being judgemental without really understanding where I'm coming from, even though I've said so several times.
Anet didn't do a 180 from their manifesto. Everything in the manifesto still holds true. Centaur has found three quotes from various interviews, about stuff that's changed since developers have said so. You can keep calling it a complete 180, and to those three statements, it sure looks like it. But there are lots of things that have also been said that get ignored completely.
For example when they came out with legendary weapons, did anyone really think that Anet didn't see them as the ultimate goal? I didn't. I can't imagine anyone who did. They've been set up that way. A long term goal.
So we have legendary weapons, but no legendary armor. This means that if you don't like that handful of skins, you're done at exotics and that's okay for some people. The problem is, it's not okay for lots of other people. How many? I don't know.
So here's my personal conflict and this conflict could not exist until I played and tried the game. See, my opinion of things evolves as I try things and learn. Six months ago, I'd have agreed with Centaur, but the more I talk to people the more I see that there is a percentage of people, possibly a large percentage, that needs that.
So I'm in this dilemma. I like the game. I really like it. I'm having fun with it. It's not addictive like certain other games, it's just fun. My guild likes the game. There are 20-30 active people that are on pretty constantly and we all like the game.
But a game like this is only really viable with numbers. That's always been the weakness of the system. And I have some real experience with this from Rift. I was on a busy server and used a free transfer to go to a less busy server. I moved to Corthana with my wife. And you know, there weren't enough people on those servers to do events ever. This game, in order to remain viable, needs high pop servers or very close to high pop servers. So far, my server is high pop, and I can do everything I want to do.
So, even though I personally don't prefer this change and even though I personally would be okay with strictly cosmetic grind, I see the problem. If the skins aren't more appealing than the skins that came before to enough people, as can happen, since appearance is a matter of taste, then a percentage of people will stop progression at exotics and those people, the ones who need some progression, are going to feel the game is missing something.
Do I love that that percentage will feel that way? No. Do I know how big that percentage is? No. But I suspect it's bigger than I'd prefer.
Anet designed a game that needs lots of players and they're taking a big percentage of those players from existing MMOs. I had brought up, half flipplantly, the example of the catholic church. Not because of what they did historically in an ethical sense, but how they grew their religion to become powerful. They did it by compromising. Going into an area, and sort of keeping the old ways while still offering the new way, until people were in the mix. It's a very common sort of way to train people.
It's my opinion that the people at Anet really don't want grind in the first place. If they did, they had no real reason to say the stuff they did before. There aren't more more players like me than there are that play other games. I keep saying there are a lot of players like me, and you can't ignore us, because we do represent a big percentage. That's not the same as saying I think that you can ignore the other players either. I've come to realize a game like this needs both camps to succeed...and a healthy does of PVPers as well. It needs warm bodies.
So these devs are trying to compromise. They are trying to keep everyone happy and of course, no one will really be happy that way. But I think that this stop gap measure is there more to fool the people who like grinding than the people who don't. That's how I'd play it if I were Anet.
If I were trying to wean people off the gear treadmill, this is how I'd do it. Get a bunch of people to run content, while at the same time, expanding the game and putting in more stuff to do. That takes time, they needed a stop gap measure. This is really what I think they're doing.
Anet is a company of artists...even the top designers there have very strong views on what a game should be. And they went into this providing that game. It worked for some of us and didn't quite work for others. But even the people it worked for say something is missing. How does a game designer figure out what that is? When does that fall into place.
So they have to add content, more stuff. They need to add more types of things to keep people playing because this game really needs warm bodies. There's no route so far. Not on my server. It's still quite busy, though obviously not as busy as opening week. But it's busy. I can do all the content in world.
But what happens if that falls off and who pays that price? You, me, or Anet? I think they're doing what they have to to keep people in the world and I'm far too pragmatic to complain about it, as long as it IS a compromise.
Ultimately, I think there'll be less gear grind than most people think, just as happened in Guild Wars 1. Stuff was hard to get at first and then it got easier to get. But first they have to have the numbers.
Essentially Anet is doing what I would do in their place, if the place I think they are is in fact where they are. And I don't see this as doing a complete 180. I see this as trying to please both sides of the coin. There's a vast difference between these things.
Because I see it differently, I have different concerns. Or maybe because I have different concerns, I see it differently. But I couldn't have had any of these views if I hadn't seen or played the game. Until I talked to enough people playing the game to see their point of view.
My point of view is never locked into place, well not about games anyway. I've always been a wait and see guy. Because I know I'm not perfect. I know I don't know everything. So when a change is made, even if I think it's the wrong thing, I have to watch and see if it really is the wrong thing.
I've been accused of being arrogant and egotistical, but in some ways, I'm just the opposite. I simply don't think I know more about what's going on with this game than Anet does.
Last edited by Vayne; 11-27-2012 at 07:40 PM.
I don't care if a game has a gear grind for cosmetic improvements. They are welcome to them. GW1 had it as well and I happily ignored it entirely. A gear grind for game affecting improvements is the issue.
That's only the grinding issue, not the growing imbalance in the gameplay.On top of that, it seems like they're addressing the issue to me. So you all can stop complaining about it now.
Q: Fractals have become the end-all for making your character stronger. Players are vanishing from maps everywhere to grind grind grind for the now-strongest items they can get ahold of. It's disruptive to the community, the fun, and the manifesto. What is being done about this?
A: This ties back to what i was saying earlier in which Ascended Gear and really any progression related reward mechanism that impacts the world globally should be introduced (Where possible) across the game and inside the different type of player's activities specifically. Allowing players to continue doing the things they love without focusing player migration to a specific part of the world. The introduction of the Ascended reward in one part of the game was a mistake and one that i don't want to make again.
Soon Ascended Gear will adhere to these rules.
One question/answer from the AMA I'd like to quote.- - - Updated - - -
Q: With ascended gears only being available at FOTM - is it intended that players wishing to be at their best in WvW will have to first tune themselves with fractal rewards?
A: It is absolutely not intended that Ascended will make a discernible difference in WvW. However it is the certainly the perception. Again however we would have much preferred to have released Ascended Gear across the whole of the game than in one area.
Players in WvW will be able to acquire Ascended items within that area of the game soon.
Another answer that might interest people.
Q: In regards to this quote that you made around an hour ago Chris: "That is why there is no plan for new Rarity Tiers of loot but there are plans to enhance or gain items within the existing rarity design whose properties continue on a shallow power curve."
People on the forums are quickly becoming alarmed by this statement, and I think we would heavily benefit from a bit of clarification.
For example, some people are construing this statement as that there will be ascended "tier 1", which is the stuff we have now, and ascended "tier 2" will come in later, which has higher stats.
Can you please clarify this statement? Will there be better statted gear with the same rarity level? Or just different combinations? Will it be like that ascended ring that has 31 to each stat (and the exotic version) compared to current rings which has less accumulative stats, or... what?
Thanks; answering this may help soothe some of the forum community a bit!
A: There will certainly be different combinations and potentially new types of stats added to a specific rarity with no overall % power increase.
However Ascended and Legendary will be infuse able.
Infusions will become the vertical progression earn able in PVE and WvW and accessible through a wide variety of different player activities thus catering to lots of different types of players and gained from all across the world of Tyria.
Should we add new player levels to the game then new items within the current rarities with a shallow power increase would be viable, however we would look at doing a new system rather than defaulting to this initially.
And yet another quote:
Q: Does the decision to add ascend gear, gating and vertical progression to the game came from Anet itself or from Nexon?
A: Anet we have no connection to Nexon in terms of development direction or at all as far as i know.
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