confused on leveling system

[stingwolf2000]

Im sure there will be some people that want to race to get to 80 and get endgame stuff. I however will be exploring everything and learning all i cant about the game. I am in no rush to get to 80. its not going anywhere so why should i rush it?

[Ruse]

That's just the thing, though. "Endgame" as most people know it doesn't exist in GW2. You're not doing all that leveling to get to "The fun part," because it's all designed to be fun. There's not some lengthy gear grind you need to begin at 80 or anything, either.

Some people might rush to 80, I guess....but that would only be because they can't drop their preconceived notions of how MMOs work.

[Luxe]

So what is there to offer us at endgame? Pvp? Now I am confused...

[Centaur]

There is no 'endgame' in GW2, there is only the game. When you're level 80, you can still do almost all of the things you do from level 1 to 80... for PvE that's mainly dynamic events and dungeons, for PvP that's whatever kind of PvP you like. Or if you prefer the PvE stories, you can always create another character and run through the game completely different (making different decisions, encountering different dynamic events, etc). In short... 'endgame' in GW2 is whatever you want it to be.

[Ruse]

Sure, you can PvP. You can also still do dynamic events in any zone (they change, keep in mind, and the zone may be very different from when you passed through it last). You're sidekicked down to be an appropriate level, so you'll still have challenge. Then there's dungeons...1 storymode and three different paths in the (much harder) exploration mode, which can lead to fighting totally different bosses in totally different ways. See what you missed, complete what you weren't good enough to complete before (because you got better, not because your gear allows you to now). The exploration mode will require really good coordination with your group.

You can also work on expanding your traits to make yourself more versatile, finishing out armor sets you don't have, crafting, unlocking dyes, work on titles if that's your thing.

The idea is that you'll be able to do epic, dynamic things all through your time there, that level is a small indicator of "progress" but not the end-all, be-all. You have to ask yourself, logging in every day to grind out that same round of dungeons/quests/whatever you did for endgame in your other MMO, were you actually enjoying yourself, or were you doing it because you had to to stay competitive?

GW2 is about enjoying what you're doing all the time. If you don't enjoy an aspect of it, you don't "need" to do it to keep up.

Have you looked at the Manifesto video? If not, it's worth a look.

[roshamjoe]

You have to ask yourself, logging in every day to grind out that same round of dungeons/quests/whatever you did for endgame in your other MMO, were you actually enjoying yourself, or were you doing it because you had to to stay competitive?

This is so true for me it hurts. What's odd is that the very first time I found myself facing end game, I liked it. I farmed mobs for hours to get gold or loot drops to create/buy the gear I needed. I formed groups and ran the same dungeon over and over again, sometimes 5 times in a row hoping for a drop that would give me an edge while trying to get that raid boss down. The very first time our little group of 40 managed to down Lucifron there was a 5 minute nerdgasm throughout teamspeak and guild chat. It felt like all our efforts were actually worth something.

Nowadays when I reach max level in a game, most recently hitting 50 in Rift, the game is over for me. I can start a new character and run around doing the same quests, or opposing faction quests; I can enter endless pvp matches farming points to be spent on gear so I'm not a one hit kill for those already dawning the best gear; I can run the same instances over and over again trying to get gear to run raids over and over again However I'm not doing these things because they are enjoyable, I'm doing them because I think that by doing them I might start to have fun at some point once I've completed all my "chores".

[Ruse]

Yep, I did that too for a bit roshamjoe. Then I had this "wft am I doing??!" epiphany moment and now I refuse to do something in a game I don't actually find fun. Sure, I'll run the same instances sometime, when a) I like the instance and b) the company is good, but no drive to grind out marks/gear/tokens/whatever.

The beauty of your "reroll" choice is that with five different races, and three different starts per race, there'll be plenty of different stories to keep us interested if we do have the urge to reroll. And since with dynamic events the leveling process will never be quite the same...yeah. It's gonna be beautiful, lol.

[Erik]

You have to ask yourself, logging in every day to grind out that same round of dungeons/quests/whatever you did for endgame in your other MMO, were you actually enjoying yourself, or were you doing it because you had to to stay competitive?

It felt like all our efforts were actually worth something.

So true this, especially for guys, who have a strong instinct to overcome obstacles and win something. These games are addictive because they touch that instinct directly. There's a reason why we have "levels" (what is a level anyway?) instead of just continuously gaining experience points: each level feels like a victory. Then you gotta get the next one. It's so addictive. I'm not saying game developers are evil, of course this is exactly how I would do it if my paycheck depended on people buying a game I made, but it is clear they know more about the psychology behind it all than many players do, who respond to this like Pavlovian dogs.

It eats up enormous amounts of time and it costs you money. In the end you don't feel satisfied, and you lost time when you could have been exercising, socializing, finding a girlfriend. It is hard for many to keep gaming down to a moderate level. But you SHOULD.

The antidote - aside from quitting the game entirely, but I still think gaming is a fun and good pastime - is to find satisfaction in the social side of the game more than in gaining levels. A good guild is excellent for this. Find the right guild and it will, paradoxically, help you spend less time on the game. Because you don't need to grind for hours to gain satisfaction by being the best anymore, you only need to spend one hour having fun with your online friends.

And when you reach that state, you have grown up a little.

[Ruse]

Excellent post, Erik. I think you articulated better than I did when I settled for saying I'd redo content "because the company is good."

The thing that has made me resent the carrot-on-a-stick model so many MMOs use is that the rewards are required to have fun doing something else. Yes, GW2 will offer incentives to redo content -- finishing a set of armor, for instance. However, nothing is stopping you from going out and being competitive in whatever else it is you like to do in the meantime.

So true this, especially for guys, who have a strong instinct to overcome obstacles and win something.

1V1! 1V1!

Seriously, though, I think girls are just as competitive at guys -- albeit in slightly different ways, typically. I know my female guildmates and I were always pretty bloodthirsty I will agree though that, in gaming, at least, guys often tend to put more emphasis on individual prowess, where girls tend to put more emphasis on group success. Plenty of exceptions to both, of course.