Issues with GW2

[Centaur]

The changes will definitely appeal to some players. Apparently ArenaNet thought that they could change the game in such a way that they would keep everyone - both their current fanbase and the ones who left - happy. But as I pointed out earlier, it's a lot easier to lose the players that you have, than to win back the ones that you lost earlier because of a failed first impression. Sure, they will win back some, and they will keep some that were considering leaving. But they will also lose some (and if the number of users posting negative feedback on the official forums is any indication, then that amount could be quite large). Only time will tell if this move increases or decreases the total number of players.

All I can say is, for me the game is heading in a direction that just doesn't appeal to me anymore.

[bokiz333]

Serious question (since I never played WoW)...how will this work - if you need Ascended gear to do certain content (and lets assume its a fair amount of content a year from now) and you are a completely new player at that point, what happens? Do people just play a very small part of the content until they get the stuff they need to get into "end game" stuff? I'm curious of the previus WoW players if they can tell me how this worked there.

[fireflyry]

All I can say is, for me the game is heading in a direction that just doesn't appeal to me anymore.

That saddens me.I had a LOT....well actually pretty much a whole guild in GW1 say the same thing when they killed GvG in GW1 but that's a different thread and topic done years ago in a different forum.The sad part was the guild was dead 2 weeks later.

Still...that sucks Centaur.I just get this impression that people are really throwing their gaming toys out of the cot before actually seeing implementation, repercussion and end effect.I did exactly the same in GW1, very vocally forum wise, then I was back playing and loving the game a few weeks later.Fully ate humble pie on that one.

[Fey]

Serious question (since I never played WoW)...how will this work - if you need Ascended gear to do certain content (and lets assume its a fair amount of content a year from now) and you are a completely new player at that point, what happens? Do people just play a very small part of the content until they get the stuff they need to get into "end game" stuff? I'm curious of the previus WoW players if they can tell me how this worked there.

They made it sound like it's going to be the same as spell resistance. You jump in and you're given a random path to complete. If you finish, you're given time to recuperate. The difficulty is then increased and you're given another random path to complete. If you complete the second path, a bonus boss will spawn. And then it loops and repeats endlessly, increasing the difficulty after each completed run and giving you bonus loot for every 2 completions.

At least that's my understanding of it.

So basically, "No". It's absolutely NOTHING like WoW other than requiring gear to continue further.

[Raejiin]

The more thought I put into this topic, the more I try to think as to why ANet hasn't thought of implementing a newer type of grind (if that is the route they wish to take). In my opinion, they should implement a system that pretty much keeps everything the way it is with the 80 level cap and the high end gear.

But instead of using GEAR as a grind (like every other MMO does), use SKILLS!!! And advertise it as such. I mean, this is a Skill-based game anyway, right...which is what ANet wanted..and what the majority of it's playerbase wanted?

Why not add a system (and this is just my own brainstorming) that uses something similar to Everquest - Alternate Advancement?

As you play, you earn "skill experience", and in turn can unlock more powerful unlockable skills (that do prettier things, more dmg, etc.) in a progressional pattern. To be honest, they technically could use the skill point system they have now....just BUILD MORE ON TO IT.

There should be no reason why I should be unlocking the most powerful skill in my class by like...level 30, or even 40...when the level cap is 80 for crying out loud...add more skills, guys (with level requirements, too).

To give level 80s more to feed on....add more skills at the end-game level for each class, and make them do pretty things, flashier things, do more damage, buff for more, etc. as you gain more experience and unlock other skills...and keep it going in a MASSIVE progression.

I love the idea of a skill-based MMORPG instead of gear. But if they are going to resort to a grind, make it a grind for skills...not gear. And don't cough'em up way too early either. Make the player earn them.

Way too many MMORPGS are set up so when you look at a warrior's "Sword of Awesomeness" you drool and wish you had one too. But, instead of having a pretty-looking sword with extra damage, what if he were to use a skill he worked VERY HARD to achieve, so he could stand back, call down the Skill: Wrath of Odin, and smash the opposing team to bits, LOL. Yes, I'm over-exaggerating quite a bit here, but you get the idea.

[fireflyry]

They already did that in GW1 with the Eye of the North PvE skills.

It will happen again in GW2 at some stage I would think.

[Vayne]

The more thought I put into this topic, the more I try to think as to why ANet hasn't thought of implementing a newer type of grind (if that is the route they wish to take). In my opinion, they should implement a system that pretty much keeps everything the way it is with the 80 level cap and the high end gear.

But instead of using GEAR as a grind (like every other MMO does), use SKILLS!!! And advertise it as such. I mean, this is a Skill-based game anyway, right...which is what ANet wanted..and what the majority of it's playerbase wanted?

Why not add a system (and this is just my own brainstorming) that uses something similar to Everquest - Alternate Advancement?

As you play, you earn "skill experience", and in turn can unlock more powerful unlockable skills (that do prettier things, more dmg, etc.) in a progressional pattern. To be honest, they technically could use the skill point system they have now....just BUILD MORE ON TO IT.

There should be no reason why I should be unlocking the most powerful skill in my class by like...level 30, or even 40...when the level cap is 80 for crying out loud...add more skills, guys (with level requirements, too).

To give level 80s more to feed on....add more skills at the end-game level for each class, and make them do pretty things, flashier things, do more damage, buff for more, etc. as you gain more experience and unlock other skills...and keep it going in a MASSIVE progression.

I love the idea of a skill-based MMORPG instead of gear. But if they are going to resort to a grind, make it a grind for skills...not gear. And don't cough'em up way too early either. Make the player earn them.

Way too many MMORPGS are set up so when you look at a warrior's "Sword of Awesomeness" you drool and wish you had one too. But, instead of having a pretty-looking sword with extra damage, what if he were to use a skill he worked VERY HARD to achieve, so he could stand back, call down the Skill: Wrath of Odin, and smash the opposing team to bits, LOL. Yes, I'm over-exaggerating quite a bit here, but you get the idea.

They already did this in Guild Wars 1...and it didn't work. The reason is is because the more skills you add, the harder the game becomes to balance. In fact, one of the things that makes this game better is less skills.

Over time with expansions, skills and weapons will be added anyway. But I've thought a lot about this and this isn't really what it seems...at least I think not.

The idea is that the difference in time/energy between getting exotic gear and legendary gear is HUGE. I mean really really big. A casual player probably won't ever get legendary gear. I'm somewhere in the middle, say hard-core casual. It'll take me ages to get a legendary weapon.

There was a tier missing. That is to say, the original design didn't really count on the idea that people really hate just having a long term goal. Anet's solution, whether you agree with it or not, is to give people sometihng in between, since both exotics and legendaries are already in the game.

This doesn't have to mean gear grind, which is what people are scared about. No matter how scared people are (and I'm nervous myself) Anet isn't Blizzard, and this game isn't WoW. The differences are quiite huge.

At the end of the day, the real question is, is this is forerunner of gear grind. In my mind, it's really not. It's Anet adding something to the game that was missing for a whole lot of people. That is a mid term goal to work for that you don't have to make for yourself.

[bokiz333]

I’m actually starting to come around on gear based progression. It just has to be DONE RIGHT. No, Ascended Infusion slots, but epic weapons with cool name and effects.

Like a new weapon called the Chango Presto Manifesto – which grants the user two faces to confuse your opponents as well as +120 backtracking.

Or the Grenth’s Gory Grinder – an awesome claymore style weapon that slashes your opponents for +50% damage if they didn’t play the game in the last 24 hours or buy gems in the past week.

Melandu’s Treadmill of Perpetuity infusion slot – where your Armor becomes extra luminous and is given added visual effects that will frighten your foes and impress your allies as long as you dry hump a centaur in Kesseks Hills once a week.

And so on….

[Vayne]

Every game needs some kind of progression. In Guild Wars 1 it was skill based. In Guild Wars 2, it'll be some of both, I'm sure. But at the end of the day, without offering the progression, you're going to lose most people. The trick is to make it so that the progression doesn't really screw over the people who don't go for it. That if you just got and stop at exotic you can still play the bulk of the game. It looks to me like this is what Anet is going for.

[bokiz333]

Every game needs some kind of progression. In Guild Wars 1 it was skill based. In Guild Wars 2, it'll be some of both, I'm sure. But at the end of the day, without offering the progression, you're going to lose most people. The trick is to make it so that the progression doesn't really screw over the people who don't go for it. That if you just got and stop at exotic you can still play the bulk of the game. It looks to me like this is what Anet is going for.

My estemmed fellow poster Mr Vayne. I believe you were a very staunch defender of this game. Until recenrtly I recall you arguing that the whole game was end game. That GW2 is unique.

Now I see you're saying this game needs more progression. I was not under the impressing you found the game so lacking at the start and felt it had a flawed long term design. Now that I know you personally tought GW2 as launched could not and should not survive unchanged, I have gained much needed clarification. I appreciate your posts as they have helped me understand the shortcoming of the game as initially launched that you personally found so wanting.