Issues with GW2

[Jim Hunter]

Interesting, this post actually makes me pause for a minute and question my view of the game and the majority of the player-base which seems to have come from GW1 which I have never played.

Is the Guild Wars old time playerbase anti-competitive play? Is the community mostly solo play and crafting/explorer play centric?

I think the vast majority of players from all other MMOs are group minded. To them anything less then a 5 or 6 person group playing experience is just not going to satisfy them.

Anyways very interesting point, one I missed I think for the last few months!

Those of us that cane from GW1 have seen an mmo that didn't require us to constantly gear up but still found ways to keep us excited about the game.

This is what gw2 was promised to be as well, a lot of us have spent 5 years following this game and telling our friends how they were doing away with the needless gear grind and less than 3 months in they went back on what they have been telling us.

What's worse is we didn't see then try anything else to retain customers before they did this.

[Centaur]

It did not change.. Legendary was and still is the highest stats available. Just because a majority of people don't want to go through the long steps of gathering and crafting their way to a Legendary piece of gear does not negate the fact that that still is the best gear in the game. It was and always will be.

Please do get your facts straight. It did change. Exotic gear had the exact same stats as Legendary gear, so exotic gear was also the best gear in the game. The difference was only in looks, and in rarity. Legendary gear had some unique skins and required a lot of effort to obtain. But there was no difference in stats. So everyone who has exotic gear (possibly by spending lots of karma or gold on it) and used to have max stat gear, suddenly has to start grinding for ascended gear to have max stat gear again.

The only thing ArenaNet 'explained' was that they did this to fill a 'gap', but the only gap there was, was in the amount of time and effort invested to obtain the gear. And that part even makes sense. I wouldn't have a problem with ascended gear if it were harder to obtain than exotics, and easier than legendaries, but had the exact same stats as they both used to have. I also wouldn't have a problem if they added an additional slot to all exotics/ascended/legendary sets which they can use for special purpose content (such as the agony thing in this particular dungeon). It's the fact that max stat gear suddenly isn't so easy to obtain anymore, and requires a considerable amount of grinding, and the fact that those with a full set of exotic gear still need to grind for the ascended gear because of the additional infusion slot (right now that's only for one dungeon, but ArenaNet have already made it clear that there will be much more content using that slot), that I have a problem with.

[hlindegar]

I am still perplexed at how people object at being given something to do when you hit 80. To me, "you can always explore, craft, do PvP..." is not good enough, and the game would be dead at 80. Would you seriously be entertained for months WITHOUT a gear grind? Also "I can always make another character" is no excuse... I'm purely talking about the lifetime of the game for a single character. How would the game be fun months from now without a treadmill of some sort? Just because it's what WoW did doesn't make it wrong. WoW did a lot of things right; it's not like anything that resembles WoW is a mistake.

[Centaur]

Would you seriously be entertained for months WITHOUT a gear grind?

Yes I would, and from the feedback I see on the official forums, many people agree with me. I played Guild Wars 1 for many years without a gear grind. There were plenty of things to do at max level, you never had to be bored, and no, you didn't have to create a new character. Those who wanted the grind, could go for obsidian armor, which was extremely rare (and very expensive), had its own unique looks and gave you a significant status with other players... but it had no higher stats.
Those who didn't want that grind, had lots of other options available to them.
And that's exactly the kind of endgame experience that ArenaNet promised for Guild Wars 2 (even though that's seriously lacking in the current GW2 release).

Just because you're so used to WoW's endgame and gear grind that you can't possibly imagine how anything else could possibly work, doesn't mean that there isn't another way.

[hlindegar]

Yes I would, and from the feedback I see on the official forums, many people agree with me. I played Guild Wars 1 for many years without a gear grind. There were plenty of things to do at max level, you never had to be bored, and no, you didn't have to create a new character. Those who wanted the grind, could go for obsidian armor, which was extremely rare (and very expensive), had its own unique looks and gave you a significant status with other players... but it had no higher stats.
Those who didn't want that grind, had lots of other options available to them.
And that's exactly the kind of endgame experience that ArenaNet promised for Guild Wars 2.

Just because you're so used to WoW's endgame and gear grind that you can't possibly imagine how anything else could possibly work, doesn't mean that there isn't another way.

Well if you dislike gear-grinding so much, don't do it. You can still participate in everything in the game even in greens and yellows. Whatever tickled your fancy for years in GW1, just do that here and stay away from the treadmill!

[Delvoire]

Please do get your facts straight. It did change. Exotic gear had the exact same stats as Legendary gear, so exotic gear was also the best gear in the game. The difference was only in looks, and in rarity. Legendary gear had some unique skins and required a lot of effort to obtain. But there was no difference in stats. So everyone who has exotic gear (possibly by spending lots of karma or gold on it) and used to have max stat gear, suddenly has to start grinding for ascended gear to have max stat gear again.

The only thing ArenaNet 'explained' was that they did this to fill a 'gap', but the only gap there was, was in the amount of time and effort invested to obtain the gear. And that part even makes sense. I wouldn't have a problem with ascended gear if it were harder to obtain than exotics, and easier than legendaries, but had the exact same stats as they both used to have. I also wouldn't have a problem if they added an additional slot to all exotics/ascended/legendary sets which they can use for special purpose content (such as the agony thing in this particular dungeon). It's the fact that max stat gear suddenly isn't so easy to obtain anymore, and requires a considerable amount of grinding, and the fact that those with a full set of exotic gear still need to grind for the ascended gear because of the additional infusion slot (right now that's only for one dungeon, but ArenaNet have already made it clear that there will be much more content using that slot), that I have a problem with.

Centaur.. we can agree to disagree then. I had this long rebuttal typed out, but realized that it is all moot as the only Legendary items were weapons and not armor.

Either way.. this discussion.. at least IMO.. has gone on way too long. At the end of the day this is how it is. This is the game in front of us. You can either play it or not. Discussion is fine, to a point. After a while it just becomes a bunch of people standing on soap boxes trying to yell the loudest.

[Centaur]

Well if you dislike gear-grinding so much, don't do it. You can still participate in everything in the game even in greens and yellows. Whatever tickled your fancy for years in GW1, just do that here and stay away from the treadmill!

The problem is, in GW1 you could get max stat gear and do all the content without a gear grind. After this last patch, that is no longer possible in GW2. Having max stat gear requires you to grind for ascended gear (and yes, ascended gear is indeed, as ArenaNet already stated at the introduction, considerably more time consuming to obtain than exotic gear... plus exotic gear has lower stats). Plus you cannot upgrade exotic gear with an infusion slot which, although currently only of use in the Fractals dungeon, will be needed for a lot more content in the future (as per ArenaNet's statement). So not grinding for ascended gear means we are either excluded from a lot of content, or that content becomes considerably harder for us. So in the long run the treadmill isn't a choice... it's a must.

Centaur.. we can agree to disagree then. I had this long rebuttal typed out, but realized that it is all moot as the only Legendary items were weapons and not armor.

Either way.. this discussion.. at least IMO.. has gone on way too long. At the end of the day this is how it is. This is the game in front of us. You can either play it or not. Discussion is fine, to a point. After a while it just becomes a bunch of people standing on soap boxes trying to yell the loudest.

It was never my intention to try and yell the loudest, all I was trying was to get my point across. I know Fey, Vayne and several others get it, even if they have a different opinion on the matter (but that's perfectly okay). With you and hlindegar, I seriously get the impression that not only you have a different opinion, but also that you simply don't get the issue here. That understanding is all I was trying to achieve.

[Agemnon]

I haven't played GW2 in a few days. I'll stick with Chess and browsing certain image boards. I'll still stop by GW2 eventually, but am all tired out after obtaining the legendary so I was originally considering this a break, but seeing the thief nerf and gear grinds was very demotivational.

[hlindegar]

It was never my intention to try and yell the loudest, all I was trying was to get my point across. I know Fey, Vayne and several others get it, even if they have a different opinion on the matter (but that's perfectly okay). With you and hlindegar, I seriously get the impression that not only you have a different opinion, but also that you simply don't get the issue here. That understanding is all I was trying to achieve.

I get what you're saying now. I just think either (or both):
1. Your fear wont come into reality. Everything will be accessible and beatable without Ascended gear.
2. You and I want different things in this game. A treadmill would be fine with me.

[Delvoire]

It was never my intention to try and yell the loudest, all I was trying was to get my point across. I know Fey, Vayne and several others get it, even if they have a different opinion on the matter (but that's perfectly okay). With you and hlindegar, I seriously get the impression that not only you have a different opinion, but also that you simply don't get the issue here. That understanding is all I was trying to achieve.

I get it. I understand both sides of the fence. I just don't see it as a game breaker. I believe that ANET says "for future content" in strictly saying future dungeons will have the infusion stuff.

The new material just added, only one small aspect has anything to do with the new gear. I think that will pertain. ANET has always held to the mantra of different avenues for people to play and different styles. I think that this is all to just satisfy one group of people. The other groups will still have new content to play and not have to worry about this.

That's all my speculation though. I'm pro GW2 right now. The only way this game dies for me, is if the servers die. I am far from bored.