Reddit AMA with Chris Whiteside (2012-11-26)

[Jim Hunter]

The MMO industry isn't fine now, and it Guild Wars 2 fails, it won't be fine. It'll encourage people to take less risk. Certainly the western MMO market, at least, which is the one I personally care about. I've tried several to many Asian MMOs and didn't particularly like any of them.

So, I can then rephrase my premise to if Guild Wars 2 fails, the western MMO market will continue to emulate WoW, which would be very bad for me.

It's not that the market will fail, it will simply refuse to innovate. Have you missed all the posts where I've said I've seen the potential of the genre, but have yet to find one that I've liked until now.

I don't care about the MMO market as it stood, because I don't like the MMO market as it is. I'm looking for certain specific changes, many fo which Guild Wars 2 brings to the market. If this market goes backwards, it'll be a long time before an MMO comes out again that I can enjoy.

Which frankly would annoy me.

See, I don't actually care specifically about Guild Wars 2. I'd feel this way about any MMO that made the changes to the genre I wanted in the first place. And even Guild Wars 2 didn't go far enough for my taste, but it's a step in the right direction. If it goes down, why would anyone want to continue in that direction?

don't get me wrong, I don't want to see the game fail but if the lost shores/gear grind fiasco is what ends up killing it that wouldn't be the worst thing for the industry.

You think it would prevent companies from being innovative but I think the thing that would stick in most peoples mind is that the companies need to maintain the trust of their player base.

I know you don't think a net lied but it does seem to bee the general consensus whether you agree or not. I also think even if it failed people would still see what they did right. no one looks at swtor and says it failed because of all the attention they gave to the story line.

[Vayne]

don't get me wrong, I don't want to see the game fail but if the lost shores/gear grind fiasco is what ends up killing it that wouldn't be the worst thing for the industry.

You think it would prevent companies from being innovative but I think the thing that would stick in most peoples mind is that the companies need to maintain the trust of their player base.

I know you don't think a net lied but it does seem to bee the general consensus whether you agree or not. I also think even if it failed people would still see what they did right. no one looks at swtor and says it failed because of all the attention they gave to the story line.

It's not the general consensus. It's the consensus of five guys on a forum. That's an exaageration but I have a guild of well over 50 people and I don't find most of us think Anet lied. Again, I can't use that as data points because my guild is very specific.

But most of the people i talk to don't think Anet lied. A few very loud people on forums do...which doesn't equal general consensus. There are also others who listened to what Chris Whiteside at the AMA, and some of those people who thought Anet had lied last week, don't think Anet lied this week. There are still people who are screaming bloody murder, but I don't think they constitute most people.

The truth is, most people who play Guild Wars 2 aren't even aware of this contravery at all. Most people who play Guild Wars 2 dont' even know that the words vertical progression means. So most people don't think Anet lied.

And if you really think investors will think the reason Anet failed is because they added vertical progression, I suggest that it's entirely possible that some will believe it failed because they waited so long to introduce vertical progression, or even that some will think they didn't have enough vertical progression. You don't know what they'll think or remember.

They certainly won't think a handful of fans on a forum killed the game...because that's what we're talking about at this point. A handful of fans.

[Jim Hunter]

Even the majority of people that have accepted or never cared about the addition of vertical progression still agree that a net reversed their position on it.

A net led us to believe it would be horizontal progression like GW1. Even if you assumed they would eventually add vertical progression it doesn't change the fact that this isn't what they were selling the game as.

[Vayne]

Even the majority of people that have accepted or never cared about the addition of vertical progression still agree that a net reversed their position on it.

A net led us to believe it would be horizontal progression like GW1. Even if you assumed they would eventually add vertical progression it doesn't change the fact that this isn't what they were selling the game as.

I disagree with this, sorry. For one thing, vertical progression has always been in the game, from day one. The fact that there are different tiers of exotics, that not every exotic is max is vertical progression. You can get a lower level 80th level exotic or a higher one. So the game has vertical progression.

Anet saw something missing and added it to a new game. That's what they did. They don't have any intention of continuing to do this over and over. People don't believe them because they say they already lied. But what if what the did was fix something they saw missing that should have been in, as they said.

They did NOT reverse their position. They've said it and I said it even before they did. They saw something missing and added it to a new game.

Reversing their position would be if they continued to do this.

[Jim Hunter]

I disagree with this, sorry. For one thing, vertical progression has always been in the game, from day one. The fact that there are different tiers of exotics, that not every exotic is max is vertical progression. You can get a lower level 80th level exotic or a higher one. So the game has vertical progression.

Anet saw something missing and added it to a new game. That's what they did. They don't have any intention of continuing to do this over and over. People don't believe them because they say they already lied. But what if what the did was fix something they saw missing that should have been in, as they said.

They did NOT reverse their position. They've said it and I said it even before they did. They saw something missing and added it to a new game.

Reversing their position would be if they continued to do this.

Except they already said during the AMA they will continue doing this. I know you love the game but you've gotta quit fooling yourself.

[Vayne]

Except they already said during the AMA they will continue doing this. I know you love the game but you've gotta quit fooling yourself.

Look, having gear progression is not the same thing as having gear grind. Words get mashed all the time. I know this company. I'm not fooling myself.

What people talk about when they talk about gear grind is having content gated by having to get specific gear to do specific things. Anet has ALWAYS been about play your way. So they gave those people a way to play their way, while BARELY affecting the rest of the game. That's what this is really about.

For every time they said there wouldn't be vertical progression, they said you can play your way ten times at least. You can play the game your way. The game is a series of things different people with different desires can do. Want to PvP, you barely have to touch PVe at all. Play it your way.

The found a percentage of people who couldn't play it their way. they made a compromise. A compromise isn't a reversal. They threw those people a bone. You're extrapolating something that hasn't yet happened.

When you can't do content, besides the higher levels of Fractals, because of the changes, get back to me. Until then, I don't see this as a reversal. I see it as a compromise that affects a small percentage of the people who feel the way you do, as opposed to a large group of people who apparently love to grind away for a small advantage. And that's the point, it IS a small advantage.

By the time it's a big advantage, everyone will have this stuff. It's how Anet works. In Guild Wars 1 they did it with skills instead of gear, but it wasn't much different. You could beat any area without having Signet of Spirits or Aura of the Lich, but it was a hell of a lot easier with those skills. They just weren't necessary.

What Anet did here is what they've been doing all along. Trying to provide stuff for every type of player to do.

[Fey]

The MMO industry isn't fine now, and it Guild Wars 2 fails, it won't be fine. It'll encourage people to take less risk. Certainly the western MMO market, at least, which is the one I personally care about. I've tried several to many Asian MMOs and didn't particularly like any of them.

You really should rephrase that to "I've tried several MMO's(in general) and didn't like them". I still think you should stop playing them lol. With the exception of GW2, you've had absolutely nothing but negative things to say about everything else in the genre.

Oh, right. And Guild Wars. You liked that one too. So I guess that's 2, at least.

[Vayne]

You really should rephrase that to "I've tried several MMO's(in general) and didn't like them". I still think you should stop playing them lol. With the exception of GW2, you've had absolutely nothing but negative things to say about everything else in the genre.

Oh, right. And Guild Wars. You liked that one too. So I guess that's 2, at least.

You can see the potential of a genre, without appreciating individual games within the genre. If you're an RPGer playing mmoRPGs, you expect SOME RPG. I'm looking for an MMO with a strong RPG presence, not an MMO that gives token homage to RPG. That's what I keep saying.

Most MMOs focus on the MMO, but not the RPG. Guild Wars 2 has stated they're putting the RPG back into MMOs and they have. I'm hoping that the Bethesda MMO will do the same. TSW tried real hard but failed in other ways...same as SWToR.

I'm an RPGer, but I want an MMORPG too. I don't think that's too much to ask.

[Fey]

You can see the potential of a genre, without appreciating individual games within the genre. If you're an RPGer playing mmoRPGs, you expect SOME RPG. I'm looking for an MMO with a strong RPG presence, not an MMO that gives token homage to RPG. That's what I keep saying.

It's ironic that you mention this, because WoW has the strongest RPG presence compared to any MMO. It's just ignored by almost all of the population. Albeit, they had 18 years of lore and story development (total). But still, there is no MMO with more lore and more backstory to learn about and participate in.

[Vayne]

It's ironic that you mention this, because WoW has the strongest RPG presence compared to any MMO. It's just ignored by almost all of the population. Albeit, they had 18 years of lore and story development (total). But still, there is no MMO with more lore and more backstory to learn about and participate in.

When it began maybe, but we covered this territory already. I never felt motivated in character to do ANYTHING in WoW. The quests were mostly ignored and in fact, were rewrtten to be better after I stopped playing. If Blizzard felt the need to rewrite them, maybe they weren't as good as you think.

WoW as all about rewarding the player, not the character. And that, to me, is the essence of a bad MMO. I want the character to feel like he's doing what he's doing for a reason, not me.