Guilds

[Fey]

I missed the live show of GuildCast so I was just catching up. And this popped up, which I never actually stopped to think about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQx9gIlaQ-s&#t=30m42


It's actually... A really really good point. Because there's like, literally no reason to be in a guild in GW2. Like, you find friends, sure. You can coordinate in WvW a little easier, sure. But like, there is no REASON to have one. There's nothing in this game the REQUIRES you to have a serious organized guild that knows what it's doing. Because realistically, there's nothing to do that you can't solo or throw a PuG together to accomplish.

And I'm not saying put raiding in the game, so don't even go there, internet! YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE! But seriously. Aside from WvW, there's no real reason for Guilds to push forward and grow.... And that is a huuuuge concern.

Geez... Well done GuildCast, that never even crossed my mind. There is nothing for us to work towards as a community. Individually, sure. But not with a Guild.

[Izzy]

I don't think having a guild should be a requirement. People that don't want to group or for one reason or another should be able to play alone. Otherwise I think they would lose a lot of their playerbase that simply don't want a guild.

I do agree with what Gary said about having guilds be difficult to create, though. I think it would really help weed out the people that are good at leading a guild, versus the people that just want a guild for the sake of having a guild. Or like one of the other people mentioned, make it so that you have to put in a lot of effort to complete your guild hall or whatever - sort of like in Guild Wars 1.

When they announced dungeons and described them as being difficult and require organization and tactics, I assumed it would be a very guild-centric thing to do. Unfortunately, that's not the case. I think they need to make the dungeons harder, or create more areas that require organization and skill. Not in that way that mobs simply have more health, but in the way that it's more complex and hectic. People should have to really talk about it before hand and come up with proper tactics to be able to complete these things. That should, in theory, pull guilds together to do them instead of pugs.

[Vayne]

I completely disagree with there being no reason to be in a guild. There's no reason to be in a guild if you only see guilds as a means to a completion end. That is, if you only see guilds as a way of taking down hard challenges. But there are other reasons to be in guilds. Playing with like minded people so you don't have to pug with complete morons comes to mind.

In fact, if it weren't for my guild, I wouldn't like the game as much as I do. It's the social aspect, the comraderie, the fun of being in a guild. It's when you want a dungeon run in an unpopular dungeon and your guild comes together and helps you, because no one else wants that dungeon. It's when you're just questing late at night and the last vista you need is blocked by a group event there aren't enough people to complete. It's when you need to take the great temple of Balthazar to buy more obsidian shards and the people in the zone want to keep turning over the events, so they get more karma, instead of winning. Those are the times when a guild becomes a necessity.

The problem is, competitive people have only one definition of guild and those are the guys who think, wow they're no reason for a guild.

But I think we've all agreed that most of the population of the game is casual. So are there reasons for casual players to join guilds? Sure there are. Comraderie, company, fun, getting the numbers to do stuff you want to do (instead of following a nameless zerg or not playing with anyone at all.

The social aspect is the main and only reason some of us have guilds. The guild banks and buffs are nice too, though completely unnecessary. But playing a game with like-minded people?

That's why I'm in a guild in the first place.

[Fey]

I completely disagree with there being no reason to be in a guild. There's no reason to be in a guild if you only see guilds as a means to a completion end. That is, if you only see guilds as a way of taking down hard challenges. But there are other reasons to be in guilds. Playing with like minded people so you don't have to pug with complete morons comes to mind.

In fact, if it weren't for my guild, I wouldn't like the game as much as I do. It's the social aspect, the comraderie, the fun of being in a guild. It's when you want a dungeon run in an unpopular dungeon and your guild comes together and helps you, because no one else wants that dungeon. It's when you're just questing late at night and the last vista you need is blocked by a group event there aren't enough people to complete. It's when you need to take the great temple of Balthazar to buy more obsidian shards and the people in the zone want to keep turning over the events, so they get more karma, instead of winning. Those are the times when a guild becomes a necessity.

The problem is, competitive people have only one definition of guild and those are the guys who think, wow they're no reason for a guild.

But I think we've all agreed that most of the population of the game is casual. So are there reasons for casual players to join guilds? Sure there are. Comraderie, company, fun, getting the numbers to do stuff you want to do (instead of following a nameless zerg or not playing with anyone at all.

The social aspect is the main and only reason some of us have guilds. The guild banks and buffs are nice too, though completely unnecessary. But playing a game with like-minded people?

That's why I'm in a guild in the first place.

Right. That's not what they're saying though.

Having friends is fine. A place to call "Home" in game is fine as well. And that's fine if that's all you want. But there's nothing for your guild to collaborate on in game and work towards. This of course, going back to the whole point that, the majority of MMO gamers in the current market haven't actually been in a REALLY good guild.

There's nothing in game that you can get your whole guild together and do other than mindlessly running around the world and zerging from place to place. Nothing to work towards, no in game goals, no rewards or anything. The most is Guild Armor and Guild Banners which aren't really... that big of a deal.

[Vayne]

Right. That's not what they're saying though.

Having friends is fine. A place to call "Home" in game is fine as well. And that's fine if that's all you want. But there's nothing for your guild to collaborate on in game and work towards. This of course, going back to the whole point that, the majority of MMO gamers in the current market haven't actually been in a REALLY good guild.

My guild collaborates all the time though. What you're saying is there's nothing to CHALLNGE you as a guild and if your guild is competitive, that's valid. But then, some guilds collaborate on role-playing. That's something to collaborate on. Just farming is much faster and more profitable with a team. Even leveling goes faster.

See, the problem is, people want there to be a reason to be forced to team up, and that's precisely what I don't want. I don't want to be forced. It's like having a group of friends in real life. I don't hang out with my friends because I want them to help me move. We don't get together and try to see who's the best at having dinner. We get together for the fun of getting together. We laugh, tell jokes, share life. That's what a guild is to me.

If I were forced into having to have a guild, that would be a different matter. In fact, in games like Rift, I had a guild that was much like the guild I'm in now. We didn't get together to beat raids. We didn't care. It wasn't why we were in a guild.

I do agree most guilds suck, but my reasons for them sucking are probably quite different from yours. In fact, it's precisely the kinds of challenges and guilds that you'd like to see that are the very types of challenges and guilds I don't want to. It's like everything else with us...we're chalk and cheese.

I think everyone would enjoy the game more getting together with like minded players. I don't think the game should force them to have to.

[Izzy]

I don't want to be forced to team up either, but I think there needs to be more possibilities to team up. Guilds shouldn't have to be imaginative to be able to find stuff to do to team up on. That's the tricky part though, because you don't want guild to be required, but more stuff to do as guilds. So basically my argument is to add more optional group activities, varying from easy to extremely difficult. Some could be possible to pug with, but ill-advised.

[Fey]

My guild collaborates all the time though. What you're saying is there's nothing to CHALLNGE you as a guild and if your guild is competitive, that's valid. But then, some guilds collaborate on role-playing.

Role-Playing isn't part of the game. It's a side aspect created by players. RP events and what not are fun but they're not mechanically designed and put in for people to do.

Which is what they're saying. There's nothing for guilds to do as guilds that you can't already accomplish solo or in PuGs. Getting together with Like-minded players is different from contributing to your guilds progress and growth. You don't need a guild just to spend time with like-minded players.

I do it all the time, I jump in mumble or vent with other guilds that I'm not even a part of because I get along with them. And run dungeons/PvP/WvW with them. Being in a guild for that is irrelevant.

[Lucread]

I'd say the biggest reason to be a part of, and participate in the game while representing, a guild in GW2 is for the bonuses. See, my guild has nearly 100 people (we had like 96 last time I checked)... and with all the influence we have earning just through regular paying, we're pumping massive bonuses out for all members 24/7.

Things like +10% Magic Find working all the time, Karma boosts as frequently as possible, and some great WvW stuff I don't personally benifit from (since I'm not into PvP), but still... and then there's all the smaller, shorter bonuses that we can share (things like banners that can be posted for any players, guild member or not, to take advantage of). I mean, it may just be a bunch of relatively small bonuses, but having them at all times makes them a huge benefit, and its something we wouldn't have if not for the size and activity of our guild.

Of course there is also the community aspect that has been mentioned, which is a huge part of why Guilds exist in the first place (and honestly, the main reason I'm a part of one), but what I've mentioned is the other benefits... the stuff you CAN'T get otherwise... the little bonuses that make a big difference. It may not be a whole lot, but its definitely something.

[Fey]

So basically my argument is to add more optional group activities, varying from easy to extremely difficult. Some could be possible to pug with, but ill-advised.

That's what my argument is too, essentially. There's nothing wrong with being in a big guild like Vaynes that's just friendly and fun to play with. But you need the other side of the coin too, you need to put things in your game for guilds to work towards so they can differentiate themselves from the other guilds which the game doesn't really have outside of WvW.

[Vayne]

What about SPvP, in addition to WvW? There's a reason in this game for small guilds certainly.