Gw2 is going to die?

[sclowe1995]

Yeah dude, try out the wvw, it's what I mostly do, because I like the hardcore mmo stuff. I don't care as much for the exploring, although I do like playing RPG's. I just don't care for it as much in an mmo. But definitely try the wvw out if you haven't yet.

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It amazes me how people can just throw things like this out there with no evidence. GW2 is far from dead and even after ESO comes out it isn't going to die. There will of course be lots of people that stop playing GW2 for a while to play ESO, but keep in mind ESO has no release date yet, no idea if its sub or f2p and its not even in closed beta yet, (they are taking apps but not started closed beta) and GW2 will be having an expansion released around the same time as ESO is released so (mid to late 2013) so hmmmm guess we'll have to wait and see.

So you have NO clear idea what the game is acutally going to be like. I doubt it will be a flop, but just because you are expecting it to be great doesn't mean it will be. The devs have already said the graphics will not be as good as skyrim or oblivion more like WoW, so if you are looking for a good looking game sorry, GW2 is going to look a whole lot better.

As for "better" lore, well its just different lore. If you get into the GW2 lore you will find it just as deep just as interesting as Elder Scrolls lore. So "better" is just a personel prefrence. If you mean "more" lore, well I think its hard to judge which has more lore, but if you just want lots of lore check out Neverwinter, its starting beta in Feb and its drawing on all the Neverwinter lore and the Forgotten Realms lore, so I think it has more potential background than any other game out.

This is just my opinion, but I feel that Gw2 lore is kind of lame. They also copied a lot of things from Elder Scrolls. Especially the race "Norn". I think we can all agree this is just "Norde" guild wars 2 style.

[Alycaea]

their potential lore seems good - but their delivery of lore seems weak to me

[Fey]

their potential lore seems good - but their delivery of lore seems weak to me

It is weak.

I wanted to figure out who Kralkatorrik was since I never actually finished Guild Wars, so I looked him up and all I got was a few paragraphs.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kralkatorrik (Spoiler warnings)

But then if you look up Deathwing or any of the main characters from Warcraft, you get pages and pages of lore and backstory and epic awesome stuff, without even having to purchase the games or the books. Just free info:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Deathwing


Like if you compare the backstory for Logan Thackeray to Tirion Fordring, you can easily tell which character has more thought put into them.

GW2's writing is ridiculously weak. Though, to give credit where credit is due, I'm happy that ANet made the game itself and it's gameplay amazing instead of focusing on telling a good story. Because at the end of the day, once you've completed/read all of the story elements in an MMO you're left with only gameplay.

[Alycaea]

Agreed, there are occasionally times I think - well what about such and such a character/thing in gw2 but it's almost never fleshed out. So if they wanted to they could potentially have pretty reasonable lore but ultimately I find the story quests and other lore delivery to be lackluster.

[Unseenbymosteyes]

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This is just my opinion, but I feel that Gw2 lore is kind of lame. They also copied a lot of things from Elder Scrolls. Especially the race "Norn". I think we can all agree this is just "Norde" guild wars 2 style.

I guess you've never heard of Norns in Greek mythology?
They were done way before gw2 and skyrim lollll

[Fey]

I guess you've never heard of Norns in Greek mythology?
They were done way before gw2 and skyrim lollll

I know right? **** Nords, I think we can all agree that they're both just Norsemen/Vikings in video game form.

Though I do jokingly call all of the Norn areas "Skyrimland".

[Vayne]

I do wish people would learn to differentiate between lore and story. They are completely different things. Fey's reference to the stuff about elder dragons, for example, is quite misleading, comparing a dragon that isn't forgotten to one that is.

I mean, in the time of the Lord of the Rings, what did anyone remember about Sauron? Nothing. These dragons were around and sleeping pretty much since before humans came to Tyria. Some of the older tomes in the world make mention of them. It's hardly the thing there'd be reams of information about.

Lore is the backstory of a world, but not a story itself. I played WoW and didn't see much story at all, in spite of all the lore. And story is what I play for.

The Elder Scrolls games often have great stories and quite a bit of lore. WoW had quite a bit of lore, but if you wanted to find the story, you pretty much had to hunt for it. I never bothered.

Given the choice, I'd rather have story in a game than lore.

[Fey]

I do wish people would learn to differentiate between lore and story. They are completely different things. Fey's reference to the stuff about elder dragons, for example, is quite misleading, comparing a dragon that isn't forgotten to one that is.

It's not misleading, I know what the difference is. I'm not saying Warcraft has a better in game story because you don't get hardly any of the story in the game itself, especially since it's separated through multiple games/novels. You're being a fanboi again.

All I'm saying is writing is writing. And GW2 doesn't have that much depth or quality writing.

[Avariz]

What is story and what is lore? Is there a difference? Is there a need for this difference if there are? As for the LotR, well comparative speaking in the same general vein of this discussion, J.J.R. Toilken did the story in the trilogy and his son did the lore in the Silmarilian. Before the Silmarilian, all the subject matter in it are just lore and not story, but, the son fleshed the lore out and much of the Silmarilian became a collection of stories where as before they were just a collection of lore. In the same comparative structure, Guildwars I and II are mostly story with few lore in that all the background information in Guildwars I and II Wiki are actual in-game game-play. Is WOW the same or is it different in that most of the background story are in fact have never been actual in-game game-play?

[Vayne]

As I said, lore is back story, as opposed to the story of your character and motivation and why he's doing what he's doing. Lore is, by nature, exposition. It's a history, or a background. It's part of world building. But not everything in lore needs to be revealed, in fact, some lore needs not to be revealed, to make stories better.

Stories have a beginning, middle and end. If you played the original Guild Wars, you'd know the story of Prophecies, the story of Factions and the story of Nightfall. They were told through the missions, much the way the personal story is told in Guild Wars 2.

When I play a game, what I require is for my character to be motivated. I need to understand why I'm doing what I'm doing. Guild Wars 1 was great in that, probably much better than Guild Wars 2 is. I knew why I hated charr, because I started in lovely, idyllic Ascalon and saw what it was like two years later after the searing. I knew why I was running around with Master Togo in Factions because I saw the results of the plague that was affecting Cantha. My character was motivated.

Even in Guild Wars 2, there's character motivation. We get the story of the dragons from a number of sources, and that's enough for me to go after them. And as a human I quickly learned to dislike centaurs, because they tried to kill me. It's not gripping stuff, but it certainly gives me motivation.

There's a major difference between game writing and literature, obviously. The Guild Wars novels are better written than the Guild Wars game, because they have less restraint. The story it the game itself is weaker than a book, because it's designed to be filled in in ten level chapters, each of which need to have a number of game-element story missions in them. This doesn't make for the greatest possible stories in the world.

As for calling me a fan boi Fey, it's getting a bit old. I'm quite capable of critiquing writing, I'm pretty sure better you you can, and ALL writing needs to be judged based on what it is. The writing in the game of WoW is not significantly better than the writing in the game Guild Wars. And the writing in both games in uneven at best.

The voice acting is also uneven in Guild Wars. But the actual writing really isn't better and there are some areas and places where it's quite good. It's limited simply because of the requirements the game has placed on the writer.

It reminds me of people who saw the movie Tombraider and said it was a terrible movie, because of how it was plotted. It was exactly what it was supposed to be. All creative endeavors really do need to be judged by the filter of what they were trying to be, including both Guild Wars 2 and WoW. And when you look at it through those filters, it changes how quality is judged.

Compared to other MMOs, by and large, the writing in Guild Wars 2 is fine.